Video summary
The video explores the profound insights gained from a direct experience with 5-MeO-DMT, a potent psychedelic compound often associated with near-death experiences. The speaker recounts an intense journey where their perception of reality shattered into geometric patterns before plunging them into a terrifying yet blissful singularity devoid of self, time, space, or fear. This state was described as a pure unity where the distinction between the observer and the observed completely vanished, leading to the realization that "I am the universe." The experience served not just as a personal curiosity but as an empirical test for consciousness studies, challenging the scientific community's reliance on second-hand accounts by demanding direct experiential data in a field often dominated by theoretical models.
A central argument presented is the tension between materialist neuroscience and subjective reality, particularly through the lens of Integrated Information Theory (IIT). While IIT suggests that complex systems like single-celled bacteria might possess rudimentary consciousness due to their internal complexity, it also posits limits regarding digital simulation; a computer program can mimic human behavior but will never truly be conscious because computation itself cannot generate subjective experience. The speaker uses the metaphor of gravity and weightlessness to explain how humans are naturally bound within the "gravitational field" of self-awareness, making the dissolution of ego during such experiences feel like an extraordinary anomaly rather than a norm. This ontological shock forces a reconsideration of whether consciousness is merely an emergent property of brain activity or if it points toward something more fundamental and widespread in nature.
Ultimately, the transcript concludes that these transformative states offer lasting psychological benefits by revealing the absolute nature of consciousness when stripped of egoic structures. The speaker notes that after this profound encounter with a unified field where no separate self existed, their chronic fear of death disappeared permanently, replaced by a deep sense of calmness and acceptance. To access such insights requires the difficult but necessary act of letting go rather than resisting or analyzing the experience intellectually; one must surrender to the flow like an astronaut experiencing weightlessness for just a moment. By bridging ancient philosophical concepts with modern neuroscience, the video suggests that while our brains are capable of extraordinary states, true understanding comes from recognizing consciousness as the primary reality upon which both individual minds and digital machines operate.
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In how many seconds?
>> Free breath.
>> Unbelievable.
>> And then the third one, the my field of
view start breaking up into hexagonals,
black, and I couldn't take the force
breath anymore because I was going down
this black hole.
But I knew I had to give myself over.
That's the the other thought. I knew I
had to just let go. And I did. Yeah. Was
there then bliss thereafter?
>> There was terror and bliss.
>> There was this weird combination. It was
just bright, you know, there was this
bright light
was sort of this singularity
and just there was three things. Bright
light, no self, no Kristoff, no
memories, no thought, no future, no
past, no time, no space,
no fear.
There was just terror and ecstasy. you
know with this modern renaissance there
were so many people and then I got
curious I wanted to experience 5me DMT
you know which is this very you know
this near-death experiences
and because I said well a I'm just
curious but b also if I claim to be a
student of consciousness and here we
have a technique that can rapidly and
dramatically and sometimes
transformatively
change your experience of the world well
then I for sure wouldn't experience it.
Yeah,
>> because you know the the the um the dict
the motto of the Royal Society is Nolio
inva in verba take no one's word for it
and for consciousness you you know you I
want to see the data right that's you
know show me the data now for
consciousness it's not just I want to
hear your account but you know that
that's the difference between look
studying black holes or viruses or
brains and studying consciousness
ultimately I can only directly
experience is so I wanted to directly
experience this. There's no Turing test
for consciousness.
>> So the problem of consciousness is not
just what most people think. Oh, you
have to explain how anything can be
conscious. That is a problem. But then
you also have to explain in each case
why is the why is the particular
conscious experience the way it is.
>> Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah.
>> Whether I'm on mushroom or angry, these
are different experience and you have to
explain how I can have different
experiences. Yeah,
>> consciousness may be much more
widespread than we think.
>> Yeah.
>> That even very simple system, very very
simple system. So for example, a
bacteria, a single cell bacteria
may already feel like something. Now
what does it mean? A single cell
bacteria has already let's say 10
million proteins of a thousand different
types. No one has ever simulated. I mean
there's people who attempt to simulate
single bacteria but no one has ever done
it completely because they just we can't
do it right now. It's already of vast
complexity. It's very specific
>> and a larger consciousness as you said
earlier would wipe out sort of if we the
two of us connect sort of and it becomes
this new maximum integrated it will wipe
out our conscious experience.
>> Correct. Suddenly the complexity this
fine measure of our integrated brain
will exceed that of my brain by itself
and of your brain by itself.
>> At that point what will happen? Hans
gone, Kristoff gone. Instead there will
be this new uber mind. Okay? This new
amalgamation of Hans and Kristoff
that'll see out of four eyes that'll
have two mouths, four limbs, etc. Then I
am the world because then I experience
the world and me as being identical.
>> Did you have that experience?
>> Uh yes I did. And I I somehow tapped
into I felt I mean I experienced tapping
into having this I'm I'm the universe. I
know it sounds trident and it sounds but
>> no to me it does not. To me it
definitely does not. I've I've been
there in in a in a in sort of that way,
but but it's
um
it's just the the the shock, but that's
that's to me the shock what to make of
it, right? Because that experience is so
real and when you get out of it, you
know, it was sort of your mind on drugs
and then again for me at least sort of
the the the old narrative kicks in
again. You also say the dictator no
brain never mind, right? A brain never
mind. So that
>> no brain never mind.
>> Yeah. Exactly. And and then that
narrative starts again and and then when
it fades but it's so real, right? And
what I what sort of a question for for
you is because you understand the brain,
you understand consciousness. You have
have have spent your whole career
theorizing about this. How do you
theorize about this experience? What can
you make of it?
Well, so I was totally perplexed,
completely per perplexed for several
days. I had a long I called up u um my
very good friend Julia Chenoni who's the
the person who started integrated
information, the architect, the chief
architect of integrated information
theory, still try to make some sense of
it. He tried to bring me down by saying,
"Well, do you believe it was your brain
that caused it?" And I said, "Well,
yeah, it's something I did take, you
know, I participate in this ceremony.
You if you've done it, you know, they
take like 10 hours, 12 hours, and you
>> you chant, you dance, and you you
partake of of sad dime." Um, I know all
of that. So in my in my normal moments I
say yeah it was my brain on when you
have this very powerful psychologically
very powerful ceremony you know that
puts you in these very powerful
expectancy effect group effect and then
you take you you take the theosca brew
and on in a combination of that my brain
so what it the conservative
interpretation is what it shows that
brains are capable of having
extraordinary experiences
>> okay and now I've had this myself I it's
Not only that I read about other people
having it but I know now firsthand that
brains are capable of this experience.
Now other but maybe and this is where
the ontological shock comes in. Maybe
this is really the black swan, right?
All it takes is one black swan to wonder
well maybe there's something
fundamentally wrong with his point of
view. Um uh and so I was trying to make
sense of it. I read um I I I had Shopmah
with me. read Shopenhau again and he
makes this beautiful comment about you
know when the um in in this um what I
think he called the aesthetic moment
when the the person merges the
apprehender merges with the apprehender
when the knowing knower know merges with
the knowing you become a pure
>> um willless
subject and that's exactly what I had
and then I was looking around and then I
came upon the the the writings of
Bernardo Castro the the analytic
philosopher and was really you know read
a book and was really tantalized by
that. Uh so now I'm you know I'm in this
I'm in this in between state from a
metaphysical point of view where because
I study the brain you know the nice
thing with the brain you can take it
>> and you can put electrodes in it whether
it's a human or or animal brain you can
record it you can poke it you can
stimulate it and and there are lawful
relationships between this brain and
conscious experience like
>> if you stimulate my back here in most
cases you'll get visual experiences and
If you if I lose bits of this visual
brain because of stroke or gunshot
whatever I will have loss of visual
experience so by some measure there
these very lawful relationships between
brain so doesn't this imply that
ultimately it's all a product of
ultimately of the brain substrate well
yeah that seems to be true but then I
had this experience so how do I explain
that is it really true that there is a
universal mind so why don't I explain
right now there are all sorts of
confusions about IIT partly because I is
a um it's a non-trivial theory. I can't
just explain it you know like saying
well it's quantum mechanics or something
like that. So it's a very non-trivial
theory. Uh it has um it has certain ax
certain assumptions which one has to
understand and it has interesting
powerful implications. Uh so it's not
easy to understand. So that means that
lots of people misunderstand it in all
sorts of expected and and always
surprising very unexpected ways where
where it says fundamentally the opposite
from what people say. So the example you
mentioned
IIT in some sense can be argued to say
that consciousness is not computable.
There is no software running on a
digital computer as currently conceived
of phenomena machine. No matter how
complex, no matter, assume it simulates
the human brain. Assume it simulates
your brain. So it's software, let's say
Python code running on in the cloud or
supercomputer, wherever. And it mimics
you. So of course it'll mimic everything
you say because it actually models the
brain, right? It models all the neurons
and then models, you know, brokers area
and, you know, and it talks and of
course it'll say, "Of course I'll see."
But I would say no it does it's not a
computation. It does not arise from mere
computation being performed on a um on a
touring uh machine. So this is the
however this is the dominant paradigm of
our day and age. It's called
computational functionalism or machine
functionalism. It is a metaphysical
assumption that that anything that has a
function can be instantiated on a on a
machine like a touring machine like you
know
>> our computers are good models of touring
machines the one you carry presumably in
your pocket is a good example of a
touring machine and so you can ask are
machines conscious today and you know
chat GPT we we all know right it's it's
quite intelligent and most people or the
people who were concerned themselves
would say well maybe not now, but it's
just a question of let's read another,
you know, chat, you know, chat GPT 4.0
or 5.0 that they're working on, right?
Soon it'll be conscious. And it's true.
Soon these machines will have all the
verbal utterances of a very intelligent
human being. In fact, soon machines will
be able to do anything you can do,
anything any human can do. But they will
never be what we are. they will never be
conscious and that's one of the clear uh
conclusions that I comes comes through
that at least digital machine as
currently conceived will never be
conscious
everyone wants to do psychedelics
yes
in fact if you just you know sit in your
airport in your airplane seat and you
mentioned you know I'm a neuroscientist
working on psychedelics oh that's
interesting now we're talking
Yeah.
>> And got to remember unlike in Holland,
in our country, it's illegal.
>> Yeah. You really had to go to the
jungle.
>> My first mushroom experience, I I knew
what it's all about. I got to the heart
of the beating heart of the universe. I
finally understood it.
>> Yeah.
>> It remained ineffable,
but I kind still with me.
>> But there was Yeah, that was your
mushroom. But this DMT one went deeper.
>> 5 m DMT.
>> Yeah. 5 m DMT. Yeah.
>> Yeah. That's a terrifying experience.
I'm never ever going to do again.
Um, yeah, it was a it felt like a
near-death experience.
>> Yeah.
>> So, you lose
>> also I guess because it's so instant,
right? It's like in how many seconds?
>> Free breath.
>> Unbelievable. Was there still a self to
be terrified at that moment or was you
>> at that moment? My last thought was,
"Holy what have I done?"
>> But it was timeless. There's no time.
passage of time comes to so it's
something extraordinary and the other
extraordinary thing 2 hours later you're
perfectly fine I mean I walked out of
the house perfectly fine
>> that's so crazy the non-toxicity of it
right your brain just knows what to do
with this molecule it
and uh
>> it's remarkable so a what it what it
really brought home once again the
centrality of consciousness because at
that moment there was nothing there was
no 12
and there was no world. There was only
consciousness. So it's really
consciousness is absolute. It's the only
thing that really exists for itself.
>> Not even self-conscious because there
was no more self. There was no crystal.
There was
>> so that really number one first and
foremost that the world I don't know
whether the world exists in that case
there was no more world. Well, if a
point of unbearable lightness, you can I
guess still say it is part of a world,
but pretty minimal.
And so, of course, I was terrified. You
know, I woke up, I totally cried
because, you know, I just lost
everything.
>> Unrealable. Yeah.
>> So, it's it's it was good in a sense of
it. Um, I discovered this a few weeks
later
because up to then I had more often as I
got older. Uh, I had these episodes
where I lay awake in bed at night and I
had um, uh, death fear.
>> You know, you just think about death
being dead forever and ever and ever.
It's terrifying, right?
>> And I discovered a few weeks later, huh,
I haven't had one of these since then.
And this was now four years ago and
never had it again. That's Yeah, you
write about a calmness. A calmness that
sort of has
>> and as it's a nice benefit.
>> Yeah.
>> And the trick is I'm talking to many
people reading about it, you have to let
go. You really have to let go. And the
first time it happened was when I had
this trick, I just let go. And when you
resist or you afraid say no, I don't
want to do this now because of this that
and the other. Yeah. So you you you have
to become I mean think about it.
Gravity. We all experience gravity every
day all the time. We born into gravity.
We will die in this gravitational well.
That's planet earth, right? And a very
rare condition when you take one of
these planes, you can, you know, be be
weightless for a minute or when you
become an astronaut, you know, you
become weightless. But those are very
rare. So it's same with self. We always
are within the confines of the
gravitational field of the self, right?
you always as always somewhat observing
and how does what does this mean for me
and what does it mean for my long-term
well-being etc etc and and removing the
self is very very difficult this is
always observant
>> and so that's a trick you have to let go
>> just let it be and just be part of the
experience as as shop said
>> no more distinction between the
apprehender and the apprehended between
the knower and the knowing