Raising a Dog & Mastering Calm Assertive Energy | Cesar Millan

I'm not saying that to give affection. I'm just saying give affection to patience and calmness and open mind. Right? Cuz when you when your dog misbehave, you want him to go back there. Go back to your good state of mind, right? You don't want the dog to do fight flight avoidance. Those are the bad state of mind. The good state of mind is patience calm surrender or happy-go-lucky. Those are good state of mind. >> Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast where we discuss science >> [music] >> and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Cesar Millan, better known as the Dog Whisperer and the preeminent dog trainer in the world. Today's episode is truly for everyone, not just dog owners. You're going to learn a lot about human psychology and behavior and it will help you better interact with other humans in every type of relationship. For instance, you will learn a simple tool that allows you to move through the world with a clear calm state of mind that will allow you to interact with others more effectively, to listen and act with more clarity and intention. And not incidentally, that clear calm state of mind is also what dogs respond to best and what makes them feel safe and healthy. Today we talk about the critical importance about understanding dog biology and psychology and the fact that they are pack animals and that we have to remove our human sense about these animals as our pets and of course they are our pets and they're extremely cute. They are family members, but understand the hard-wired aspects of their brain and biology that allow us to be the best leaders for them. I have to warn you, a lot of what you hear today may sound counterintuitive at first until you understand the biology of dogs and the fact that they respond to people's energy and actions, not words. I know they can listen to commands, they can learn words and commands, but they're responding to the energy and the actions associated with those commands. Only then can you be the most effective dog owner. And by effective I mean making your dog as healthy and feeling safe as possible. I should point out that one of the reasons I'm so excited Cesar came on this podcast is that I had an amazingly positive experience with his methods years ago when I got my first puppy, Costello, who is a bulldog mastiff. I read his book Be the Pack Leader and the principles within that book were critical for developing an incredible relationship with Costello who lived 11 years. You could bring him into any environment. I would bring him to class. I would bring him into different people's homes. I could take him essentially anywhere. He loved kids. He loved people and he was extremely well-behaved. Exceedingly lazy, too, but exceedingly well-behaved. And I credit that to the methods that I learned from Cesar's book. So, if you have a dog or you're considering getting a dog or you want to better understand how to regulate your energy and behavior in all types of interactions with dogs, with cats, and with other humans, today's episode will teach you those extremely valuable tools. And I'm extremely pleased to announce the newest member Huberman Lab podcast team, Strummer. He's also a bulldog mastiff mutt. He's similar to Costello in breed, but I should say not a pure English bulldog. So, not a lot of snoring and the other stuff that go along with English bulldogs. I love the English bulldog breed, but when they're mudded with other breeds like this one, they breathe a lot easier and he's just the sweetest thing. So, you'll be seeing and perhaps hearing more from Strummer. I am applying all of Cesar's methods to training Strummer. You can see he's a very calm, relaxed dog. He gets two walks a day and a bunch of other things you'll learn about during today's episode that will benefit you if you have or you're thinking about getting a dog. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with Cesar Millan. Cesar Millan. >> Yes, sir. >> Welcome. I'm a huge fan. >> Thank you. >> Your book >> Same here. >> Thank you. Thank you. I'm honored to hear that. I but I will say your book Be the pack leader. I read the hard copy. >> Thank you. >> my first puppy. We never had a dog in my home growing up. >> Yeah. >> To raise Costello. >> Yeah. >> Bulldog mix, stubborn dog. We went 11 years together, he and I and that book and your other teachings were tremendously impactful for my relationship with him, yeah, but also in my work life and my entire life. We're going to talk about some of the themes from that book and beyond today, but I just want to extend my gratitude. It's a true honor and pleasure to have you here. >> Yeah, in modern parlance, they say you're the man. You're the man. >> The pack leader. >> That's right. Many, many people want dogs, have dogs. Have these concepts of dogs that lead them to think they're a great dog owner, but a lot of dog behavioral issues, emotional issues we know probably reflect something in the human as well. >> Not probably. >> So certainly. >> Yeah, cuz there is no knowledge behind instinct. It's all reaction. So you can never blame an animal for doing the wrong thing. You see it? So So you can guarantee for a dog to do the right thing. Right? And And so how? Well, that means the human has good energy. And what's good energy? Well, if you understand the power of silence, which that gives you patience. The power of calmness, which that gives you trust. And calmness is you're just learning how to breathe, right? The power of confidence, that's knowledge, right? And then the power of love, when to give love. Cuz a lot of times people give love at the wrong time. So you end up nurturing the wrong behavior. Right? So that's what happened to my clients. And then the power of joy, that's the celebration, right? We're going to FIFA right now. We're going to World Cup. Nobody celebrates unless they make a goal. You see what I'm saying? But they have to be patient, calm, confident, love what they're doing, and celebrate afterwards. See, they follow that formula. It's the silence, it's the common before anybody's going to go to something so powerful, such as winning, right? Or being in a team, or being in a group. The energies of silence, calmness, confidence, love, joy is what makes them become a great team, cuz that's what connects your spirit, your instinct, your heart, and your mind. In the same way we have to connect with a dog. It's not just emotional, it's not just intellectual. You know, just want to train the dog. What you train is the mind. What you connect is the spirit, the instinct, and the heart. That's what you connect. That's why I say trust, respect, love. Trust the spirit, respect instinct, love with the heart, create with your mind. >> For many people, especially in the United States, they're not familiar with feeling energy and exchanging energy with a dog. >> Right. >> I'll give an example of when Costello, my previous bulldog, some probably bulldog mastiff, who knows what he was, but whatever he was, he was Costello. But I learned something very important from you. Before he's Costello, he's an animal. >> That's right. Spirit. >> Ah. >> Spirit, animal, specie, breed, [clears throat] name. See, so the last thing they are is the breed and the name. >> Mhm. >> So when I rehabilitate a dog, what I'm doing is bringing back the happy spirit, bringing back the healthy instinct, and bringing back the rules, boundaries, limitations mind. Cuz that's what makes them well behaved, when they understand rules, boundaries, limitations, no matter what breed they are. >> Mhm. >> So it really doesn't matter if you have a pitbull, a Rottweiler, German Shepherd, or I'm Mexican and you're white, and African American. It really doesn't matter the race of the human. What matter is is that person has a happy spirit, a healthy instinct, and a well educated mind, right? So you want to be a good human. Right? And you want to be part of the pack of the good humans. And those humans are good, right? Those are Those are the humans that help other humans or or or they create uh well-behaved dogs because they're following in that path. You know, there is some people are born to the I mean, I I'm I was I'm part of the pack where it's better humans, better planet. But I know a lot of people who are not part of that path. So, it's that. >> Yeah, certainly uh raising and and living with Costello taught me a lot about how to sense people's energy. I had an amazing experience with him that I just want to share briefly that I realized now is probably the spirit component. But it was something that I tried on the basis of what I read in your book. So, I was walking him and he sometimes he didn't want to walk in a particular direction, you know, and so he was always walking by side or a little bit behind me. I had that going from very early point. I practiced no look, no touch, no speak in the first um you know, minutes of contact of coming home and we can talk about why that's important. But at one point I decided based on what you put in your book to try something that seemed kind of wacky to me at the time where I was just going to at some point during the walk, it was a we would had a great stride, we're having a good time, he's smelling things, but we're moving on and [clears throat] and I decided to just send him like approval energy. Like I'm just going to think it and then I and then feel it. I'm just going to send him some energy. I'm just walking around, I'm just doing this. I did not change where I was looking. I did not change as far as I know, like the tension on the leash, who knows. And he just looks right up at me. And I was like, this is incredible. After a really good day of hiking or work, he used to come to the lab with me or something, we were sitting or I was cooking or something, every once in a while I would just while I'm doing something else, I would just send him like this positive energy. And he would look over at me. It was It was wild. Yeah. I realized he's sensing things that are beyond my words. In fact, I don't know that he ever really listened to what I said terribly much. He could really feel what I was feeling. He was probably paying attention a lot more of the time than I was aware. But I also had the experience of when he was doing something I didn't like, I could send him disapproval. That's right. And he would stop. It was wild. We were, you know, meters away from each other. And I could send him this energy. Now, to you this is probably like, yes, of course. But I think for me and I think for most people that have dogs or thinking about owning a a dog, you know, they think this is crazy, right? But I swear on my life that you I could do this in a variety of circumstances, while driving, anything, and he would react according to the the energy that I was sending out. As a neuroscientist, I can make up some story. Okay, well, we have fish have electric sensing I can make up a story in neurology, neuroscience that would more or less hold together. But I want to know your impression of what What is this and and then hopefully that will take us into a discussion more about energy exchange between all sorts of beings. >> Well, you know, silence is very powerful. Right? Uh um the the power of prayer. Uh my mom certainly is always connected. Uh you know, when I cross the border, I feel my mom. You know, I jumped the border. And so, jumping the border is a life and death thing, right? And then so, you you you give yourself to God and then of course, you know, your mom is is always thinking about you. So, you feel this energy uh that is done by the by the prayer or by the silence. You are what you believe. And so, if you believe you can connect and you communicate this way cuz you you're going to be I mean, the fact that people are not aware of energy, we can feel that the person doesn't feel good. And we're not we don't even know each other. You know, so imagine if we humans are sensitive to that, all animals never stop this way of being. Right? The sensitivity of animals that they don't go into the mind, they stay within their instinct because that's how they stay safe, you know, and and maintain the peace. And so, uh what you did was exactly that. Don't talk. Don't talk with words, talk with energy, body language, and intention, you know? How how do you become the best dog trainer in the world? Because that's all you think about. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> That's all you think about it, you know? Even when you go to sleep, even when you know you're nobody, you're not about it. That's So, you create the law of attraction. You create the law of of creation. The most difficult law is the law of maintenance. Right? Cuz it's easy to attract, it's easy to create. What's hardest to maintain. >> Mhm. >> Right? And that's why patience is so important or silence is so important, yeah? Cuz it's This one is is infinite. It's an infinite energy. So, if you feel that, imagine how powerful you become. And then just to be right here where you are claiming your space. Calm. That gives you another power cuz that gives the animals the capability to trust. And then your intention, right? What is it that you want without words? Uh just don't want you to be over there. I just don't want you to go after that dog. I just want you to stop doing what you're doing cuz think about when cats communicate with a dog. It's a completely different species, but can a cat control a dog? The same way you did. Same. Silence, calm, confident. [clears throat] So, that's that's that's why a cat can control a Rottweiler and a pitbull, right? When people feel, oh, it's a it's a very dangerous breed. At the moment you think something is dangerous, you you give your power away. Right? At the moment you bring silence, calmness, confidence, you regain your power back. And that's the first line of communication before sound. But most people focus on, I want to train my dog. I want my dog to listen to commands. No, no, no, no. You want your dog to listen to to silence, to your calmness, to what's in your mind without saying a word. >> That's exactly it right there. That was the the relationship with Costello improved an order of magnitude when I understood that. That I could talk to him all day or say whatever, it had a very little potency >> Yeah. >> compared to how I would show up. And then it also taught me a lot, of course, about how to arrive home, >> Mhm. >> how to walk into a You know, I'd bring him to class. I taught at you know, 400 person class, he would walk in. It was very interesting. Everyone you know, "Oh, dog." Dogs Most professors wouldn't bring their dogs to class. And he knew it was all there. Typical Costello, you know, he would just kind of walk to the front of the classroom. He'd wait a few minutes, not look at anybody, and then he he would decide. He'd just like glare at all the He could light up a room. But I understood that I wouldn't let him be like the too much of a celebrity or else he would start misbehaving. I had to remind him like, you know, we have a structure and an order and >> correct. >> And I do think that people would benefit so much from getting in touch with this capacity that they have to sense their own energy and the energy of other people regardless of they have a dog. >> Well, you know, Americans go to India to be quiet, right? And then to to to practice not eating, which they call fasting, right? And then to stretch. That's practically it. It's silence, you know, learn how to breathe, and then stretch. Gives you a little bit, you know, agility into it. And you learn to control hunger. Which in another country, that's what we learn. Right? We learn to control hunger. We learn to be quiet. We learn to be calm. We learn, you know, whatever we know, we do really good at it. We become really good farmers, really good animal people, right? And family people, you know, God people. And and so we have a good a structure, good discipline, and such a basic, simple stuff. And that's what gives us the the upper hand of uh walk a dog off leash. When I when I started walking dogs in America, I didn't know it was illegal to walk dogs off leash. I was walking 40 60 dogs at a time. Right? And I was doing it off leash because that's all I knew. Mhm. You see it? And so that that um that energy of silence, calmness, confidence is what now I now that I understand what I did is what led me to this event, you know, for people who see me from Inglewood to South Central. It's a Mexican guy that walks a pack of dogs from Inglewood to South Central off leash. That's when the LA Times came and and did a piece of me cuz they didn't they couldn't understand, you know, this concept of walking a dog off leash. This dog shaman or something. >> in the land of the free, right? Cuz you know, dogs in America have rights, but that doesn't mean they can walk off leash. >> Mhm. You see it? A dog has to be on a leash. And humans have to learn uh to to transmit that energy through the leash because there's a lot of dogs that react on the leash. When the dog should be the most well-behaved, then the dog is off the leash. You see it? But the leash in the animal world is trust, respect, love. The the the leash in the animal world is a human understanding, you know, silence, calmness, confidence, love, joy. And that's pack leader, direction, protection. Right? That's the only way you can say I'm a pack leader. Right? Cuz you are that energy. >> I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Element. 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If you would like to try Joov, they're offering up to $400 off select products for listeners of this podcast. To learn more, visit Joov spelled j o o v v.com/huberman. Again, that's j o o v v.com/huberman. >> I'm uh in a dilemma whether to go down the uh the concepts of what is happening in third world countries, not just today, but always in terms of how people sense energy and use energy versus what we do here, but I think I'm also keen on the fact that many people listening don't know how to walk their dog. >> Yeah. >> I'll ask a very simple question first. Should the dog always be next to you or behind you? Uh is there ever an instance where the dog should walk out in front of you? And as I say this, we both realize many people walk with their dog in front of them. So, could you tell us about the concept of where the dog is relative to >> But think about it. Look at it this way. So, people can can uh uh adopt the the concept quicker cuz the if you learn how to walk a dog, uh it would eliminate 90% of the problems. >> Mhm. >> The [clears throat] other 10% will be rules, boundaries, limitations. Right, that's it. Um So, when a dog is a pup, he follows his parents. Right? And then he plays, then he explore. But the first activity he learns is to follow. Follow, play, explore. So, play and explore becomes like a reward activities. That's the Chuck E. Cheese time. Right? Right. And And so, the follow is the one they learn, you know, the rules, boundaries, limitations. They learn to to stay focused and not get distracted. >> Right. >> So, naturally, dogs, they need to learn to follow. When they go in front of you, they are in the mind of a player explore. But at the same time, if you do this every day, the dog learn that you he has to lead you to places. >> Is that stressful for the dog? >> If a dog is middle of the pack and back of the pack, yes. If a dog is front of the pack, no. You see it? And so, it very important in order for people to have a front of the pack dog, they need a lot of knowledge. And so, most dogs are perfect middles or back. The back should be the easiest one. But when people don't do the right thing with the back, he becomes fearful. Uh the middle of the pack should be the one for the families because it is naturally happy-go-lucky. But if you do too much excitement, they become hyper. You see it? And >> is across breeds? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Doesn't matter if it's a bulldog or a, you know, a >> In every litter, there's front of the pack, middle of the pack, back of the pack. But it's more back of the packs being born, like followers, then it's only one per litter, a litter of the pack. So, that's That's what they call in the in the breeder world, pick of the litter. You see it? So, in a in a litter of German Shepherds, only one it can be a police officers. The other one is pet quality or they call them the run of the litter. Back of the pack, sensitive. Middle of the pack, happy-go-lucky. Is the HR of the fam of the pack. Is the middle of the pack, right? And then the front of the pack is the one that gives direction, protection. >> Ideally for a family or for a typical domestic situation, I'm thinking United States, but elsewheres because this is going everywhere in the this this episode will go everywhere. Middle or back of the mid pack? >> Middle. >> Yeah. A family who has never raised a dog together, yeah, middle. >> How can you assess the litter when you see them so that you pick a middle of the pack dog >> Yeah. >> if that's what's appropriate. Sounds like that's the that's the goal. >> The front is going to be very easy to to assess because he's going to be the biggest one. He's going to be the one that's moving the sisters and the brothers away from the mom. Right? He's He's already going to practice dominance. And then the middle is is is is the second to get to the mother. And the back of the pack, they're always wait. You see it? They're more shy. Naturally, they're just sensitive. >> What if you don't have access to the interaction with the mother? Having gone to pick up puppies a few times, sometimes you just see the puppies, the mom's in another room. Should you ask to watch the interaction and if you and if you can't, how can you assess if you're just looking at the litter? >> if you are in a situation, the breeder knows because that's why they put ribbons, you know, color ribbons. [clears throat] So so they so they know, okay, this is middle, this is our back. Even though they don't call them that way, they just call them round of the back round of the litter, you know, pet quality, up front of the pack. And the front of the pack is just the obvious one. Right? And so when just go inside, you know, where where where the puppies are and there's no mother or nothing, just stay quiet. And every time you present something new, you're going to see the more confident coming to and the more happy-go-lucky coming to. And the back of the pack, he doesn't get close. Anything new, it just can be a pillow. And that's the first time they experience a pillow and the front of the pack will go. And the and the middle of the pack will go and play. >> It's hardwired. >> It is it's there. That's why you can guarantee good behavior. Right? Cuz now you Okay, I want a middle of the pack border collie. I want a middle of the pack golden retriever. I want a middle of the pack pitbull. You can have it. You see cuz that's going to guarantee you exactly what you want. It's going to be easier for you to tell them what to do because it was born naturally a follower. Versus if you get a front of the pack whatever breed, chihuahua, I don't care what it is. They they're born you know, with with the disposition of giving direction, protection. So whoever human wants to you know, live with them needs to have more knowledge. Right? So that's me running a pack of dogs and having different animals, the animals know that I have a big energy. They don't know I have 43 acres, they just know I have a land. >> And that you're in charge of it. >> Yeah, and then all the ups and downs that I went through and I have been the wars that I go through. Right? The divorces and all of that stuff. And I went through and and and and I and I I'm I find my silence, my calmness, my confidence, my love, my joy right back. They know my energy is big. Right? So So that I can have a front of the pack. >> Mhm. >> But I don't have one. I have middles and back. >> Even you. >> Even me. >> Mhm. >> Yeah, cuz it would re- it would require so much I would need to find him a job. >> Mhm. >> You see what I'm saying? Like a like a border patrol, something like that, looking for >> [clears throat] >> for looking for the bad guys. Like that would be a job. It's just one officer and one dog. He doesn't need the pack. >> Fascinating. I I'm sure like many people listening, I'm trying to figure out was Costello front of the back. I think he was. Um he's an enormous dog. I mean uh even within his litter. And um when I went to go pick up Well, I'd met him as a 3-week-old puppy. He was the one butting all the other ones out, eating from their food bowls. >> Mhm. >> He was >> They claim. >> Yeah, he didn't yelp uh didn't yap at all. He just ate everything, >> That's right. >> took everything, peed where he wanted to, did everything. >> Mhm. >> So there was a lot It was a difficult thing raising him. This new one, Strummer, who's 4 and 1/2 months, he's definitely middle, maybe even back of the pack, but >> sensitive. >> he was second out uh when he was born, and they said, "Oh, you know, he's going to be the pick of the litter." They said it, but it's definitely not. He would you know, quickly it was clear that he kind of kept a little bit distance. He is very sensitive. >> Okay. >> That's good. Much sweeter. >> Yeah, sensitive. >> Yeah, much more playful. >> As middle. >> Um and that's the part that I have to work with because they enchant us, you know, like I noticed with Strummer he he is figured out, you know, that if he gets into play mode, it lights me up, and then I have to remember to stay in my >> Mhm. >> in my place, my proper place. Because I'm trying to teach him here this is the order of things. It's very important cuz I want to break be able to bring him anywhere. >> Yeah. >> in a room alone with little kids and trust completely that he's not going to accidentally do something. >> Yeah. >> For people that want to learn to sense their own energy, use their energy field, >> should they also be asking if they are front, middle, or back of pack? >> yeah? >> Yeah. In the [clears throat] human world. This is something that's a little bit of a sensitive topic, right? Because every guy wants to say, "Yeah, I'm going to alpha and not to be Everyone thinks that way." I like to think in different circumstances people can move up or down the the >> The human can. >> hierarchy. I mean, I work with a lot of scientists and I can tell you in many environments that they don't come across as alphas, but you put them in a laboratory or a lecture environment and I mean, they own their space because that's their expertise. So, it can move around. But, can you explain what it is to observe oneself, really think honestly about oneself, and where one really lies in this Let's Let's call it what it is. It's a It's a It's a hierarchy, but that makes it sound like one is better. It just is what it is. You're either front, middle, or back of pack human. >> That's the the special magic, right? Being Being back of the pack means the master calm surrender. So, we have to learn to to master calm surrender. That's our more sensitive state of mind, right? This is So, when I'm assessing and evaluating a dog, I go into my calm surrender state. So, I go in the back of the pack. Right? When it's time for me to give direction and protection, I go to the front of the pack. When I achieve whatever I need to achieve, I go into the middle of the pack. You see it? So, the human can can can can take advantage of this position of this of this state of mind. Right? The dog, [clears throat] the back of the pack dog is is going to is going to tell you, "Listen, I'm here to master calm surrender. It doesn't mean I don't do happy-go-lucky. >> [clears throat] >> But, he can never do calm confident. >> Back of pack can't do front of the pack. >> Never. Never. Never. >> And are we talking humans and dogs now? If we're really transparent? >> Well, it's just to have that fine line between what the human can do, right? What versus what the dog can't. Right? So, it's important to understand, you know, that a dog is born with a position, right? And the human can go from whatever position he was born to different positions, right? Cuz there's a lot of like you say there's a lot of scientists people who are who are very brilliant on this side, but when it comes to a dog, a dog takes over. >> Oh, yeah, or even just at a coffee shop, you know, they're they sort of they they become a smaller version of themselves. Not because they're weak, it's just it's not their domain of expertise and they feel weak in that environment. >> Correct. Or they turn on one energy more than the other one. And so a lot of these people turn on more the affection energy. >> Mhm. >> Right? And the affection or love energy in the animal world is not a strong energy. >> Yeah, tell me more about that because I practiced on the your recommendation, no looking, no touching, no speak when I got home. Most difficult thing for people to do, I think. You know, they get home and the dog's like super happy to see them, tail is wagging, they're excited. And I I'm like, I'm going to ignore my dog. This feels like abuse, right? You know? But come in, do my thing, it's and then after some period of time I'm like, "Hey." And what I realized is every time after that I'd come home and he was calm. >> Yeah. >> He was excited to see me, but he was calm. Never jumping up and touching me, never jumping up and touching anyone else. But if someone came over and they were super excited, it almost would confuse him. Like this is not how people enter the the space. Most people I think have a very hard time not greeting their dog with men and women squealing. >> That's right. >> [laughter] >> It's crazy. And it makes the dogs anxious. It causes problems in the relationship. >> Yeah. >> Right? >> Absolutely. >> But I think most people don't realize that. >> Well, that's exactly you said it, you know, I I don't want to ignore my dog. And I don't want to like tell my dog that I don't love him, you know, cuz then the interpretation the dog missed me. But, you know, every time you leave an animal behind walls, the the animal is going to go excited or anxious. Right? So, not always what you're greeting is a happy dog. Most of the time what you're greeting is an excited anxious dog that is confused. >> Mhm. >> Right? So, it's very important, you know, when when people sees dogs read another dog, there is no excitement. There is respect. Mhm. You know, [clears throat] and then and they wait until they the the front of the pack allows them to come in. They can't just come in into their intimate space. So, it's a ritual. So, it's three rituals that are very important for people to master with no touch, no talk, no eye contact. One is the meeting. Every time you meet a dog, always remind them about safe, peace, nose, eyes, ears, trust, respect first. And then there's the walk. The dog right next to you, following you, quiet. And then when you feed. So, those three activities are very meaningful to dogs. But, it all starts with the meeting, with the greeting. So, every time you reunite, you have to remind your dog that you are a source of safety and peace, of trust, respect, of nose, eyes, ears. You have to tell them that. >> And I check nose, eyes, ears for us cuz I think most people, because we're humans, especially in US and, you know, in northern Europe or wherever, like >> England. >> It's >> Speaking constantly. >> Yeah. There are people just speaking constantly. Like, "Hi. Hi. Hi." Like, you know. This is not the best way for to communicate with a dog who you are and what you're about and what the the trust relationship >> creates excitement, >> Mhm. >> right? It creates a dog that learns to greet people with excitement. So, if you greet your dog with excitement, you are the source to other humans. So, he's going to greet all the humans excited. He's going to jump on people. Not everybody wants a dog that doesn't belong to them to jump on them. So, but because you know that let's say you do that, uh your dog has learned to welcome humans excited. >> Mhm. >> You see it? So, when a dog is born, he borns with the nose open. 15 days later, they open the eyes. 21 days later, they open the the ears. This is scientifically, right? This [clears throat] is in all the encyclopedias. So, that means the dog met his parents through the nose, then the eyes, then the ears. You see it? But, when people wants to do ears, eyes, nose, they're they want to create a human. They want the dog to understand the way you and I understand. Hey, hey, Andrew, how you doing? But, we can control that excitement. Right? At least we should. >> Some [clears throat] people can't, right? >> But, so it's a different ritual for us. You know, we believe in parties, we believe in parades. I For a horse to go to New York, it's a very excited place. It takes conditioning. Because no horse will ever volunteer going to New York. See, it has to be conditioned. Right? Cuz you're bringing him to a very excited environment where his instincts say flight. >> And recently there have been these problems. Sorry to cut you off. I don't know if you saw a couple of the carriages in Central Park took off. Someone was killed recently. There's a whole debate going on now whether or not this is good or bad for these horses, but it's just clear, regardless of where one sits on the debate, that you can't take the instinct out of the animal. There are triggers that will send them over an edge. >> Oh, you have to make sure that you you know, you you keep eye on on how is the spirit of the horse, is the instinct of of the horse healthy, you know? Is the spirit happy? You know, cuz when they just go into the habit of working, working, working, working, even a police dog can crash. You see what I mean? Even a Even a police can dog can bite a police officer cuz it's overworked. >> I have a few friends from the special operations community. They work with these dogs that jump out of planes, parachute, do Yeah, yeah, the Malinois, and several of those guys have told me that with those dogs you cannot ever ever let up your guard as the leader. In fact, a few guys who got a little soft with them, just a tiny bit, like one anecdote was they decided to invite the dog in to watch a movie with them one night when they're on deployment or maybe they were training, I don't know. And he let the dog get a little too close to him during the movie. The next day he got bit. And it's like they're constantly trying to move up the move up the hierarchy. He's like it sucks cuz you you you fall in love with these animals, but you have to constantly keep the relationship in its proper place or they'll not turn on you, but they'll try and take your position. >> They don't try. That's the thing with animals. They don't try. They just do. Right? There is no knowledge behind instinct. It's all reaction. So at the moment your energy goes down, bam. >> Amazing. >> At the moment they so they're they're keep eye on your energy, you know, and but at the same time, you know, this kind of dogs are always in a high level of excitement. They keep them that way. They are vigilant. They keep them like like that. They don't know how to turn it off. >> So to create a great home family dog or even if somebody lives alone, it's no look, no touch, no speak in the first couple of minutes of contact. >> Yeah, until the dog becomes peaceful and calm and open-minded. So surrender means the mind is open. Right? So once the mind opens up, you can teach whatever you want, such as waiting, such as being calm. >> What if somebody has an anxious dog right now? They haven't been doing this and the dog is pawing at them and and running around. Should the person just stay completely in that calm space moving about and ignoring them touching them or should they be physically giving like, you know, get off me type of thing? >> this also have to do with how how much exercise physically exercise the dog has to receive. Right? How long is his walk? Cuz most people walk 20 30 minutes. That's not enough and the dog end up in the house for 20 23 and 1/2 hours. >> In my opinion, it's borders on abuse. It's really incredibly hard on an animal that has that much energy. >> say I love my dog. And and and in my first question is how long do you walk them? >> What is your recommendation? I realize it varies by breed and by age. >> Yeah, and by level of energy cuz some are couch potatoes, low level energy, some middle and some high, right? And so it depends on the energy of the dog. So not because a dog is a back of the pack doesn't mean they they don't have high level energy. Okay? Because the sled dogs, there is a lot of guys that go in the back. There's only one in the front if you notice, right? And even in the back of the pack dogs, because it it they create a a pack from middle back, right? And that's where they stay in that mode. And and so even the back of the pack, they have to have the same level of stamina as the one in the front. So now because he's a back of the pack, he's couch potato. You know, so then then you have to understand the levels of energy that they're born with, low, medium, high. Yeah, so a lot of times people say, "Oh, bulldogs are couch potatoes." No. The [laughter] you can have a bulldog that is absolutely athletic, absolutely athletic, and has the stamina to go and you know, obviously you have to help them with the breeding part. And cuz they're they just go into, you know, no limits. So you have to help them, you know, calm down. >> Strummer has a lot of energy, you know, uh compared to Costello. Um so two minimum 30-minute walks per day, as much as a couple hours twice a day. >> back on, right? Obviously the dog is a little older because, you know, the backpack adds that extra half hour. Cuz now the dog is carrying something. >> So weighted backpack. >> Yes. >> And how should one assess like percentage of body weight of the dog? Like >> At the beginning, you can just put a backpack cuz they're psychologically, you know, they don't want to wear anything, you know? Nothing that we put on them, they want to wear it. >> Uh-huh. >> You know, a leash, a collar, a muzzle, a boots. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Uh so psychologically, that drains them, right? Cuz they got to get used to it. So you you walk until the dog comes surrender to it, and then you take it off. And then the mind will become very drained. Once the dog gets used to it, and then you start putting weight. You can start with 5 lb. Remember, everything you add something, you challenge the mind. And the goal is simply for the mind to surrender. You see it? And and then the body the body is going to become calm because he's wasting energy. So your job literally every day with a dog is to empty the tank. Empty the tank, you know? Cuz a tired dog is never going to give you problems, ever. >> True. >> The ever. How? He doesn't have the energy to give you problems, right? And then on top of that, you create rules, boundaries, limitations such as just put food right here, but he can't touch it. So, the mind now has to be disciplined not to touch it. Then the mind has to learn instead of doing this to do this, and that requires the self-discipline. If you tell the dog, "Don't touch it." or "Don't touch the human. Don't touch the food. Don't touch the cat." they go into a calm surrender state, and they wait. >> Yep. >> The first thing that I taught Strummer um was to suppress action. Just as a general theme. He learned it right away. Um at 8 weeks, it took about a day, maybe even half a day cuz I had learned the hard way with Costello. He was much more stubborn. I could set food down. Yep. As a 8-week-old puppy, because we went through the training process, he's not touching it until he looks at me. I can walk around the room. I can do whatever I want. He's tracking, and then when I say, "Okay." then he's going to eat. I will just mention there's a inhibition from the forebrain down to the brain regions that control impulses. And this is what we call top-down inhibition, which is nerd neuroscience speak for what you you're describing practically. And I feel like it carries over to other circumstances more easily. But I can put food in front of him now and leave the room. I don't do this for extended periods, but I come back, he's not going to touch it. Yep. And then he he starts to eat. Now, it's a little bit more difficult with things that um like trying to teach him to not uh be mouthy on But so I have a rule, no no skin in dog's mouth. It's just like it's all or none. Make it simple cuz when it's really cute when they're a puppy, their teeth are a little sharp, and then you can kind of But I just have a it's a thick black line. Right. And my girlfriend knows this, too. Like she's like, "No, but he wants to play." And it's like, "No skin goes in his mouth." And he cuz that's a simple rule. Yep. And if he does happens to, you know, go for skin, I'll do the little yelp thing. He understands right away. So, if people hear this, they're going to be like, "This is terrible, right?" You're putting food in front of him and he wants to eat and you're not letting him, but could you elaborate why this is so important to the dog's happiness and well-being because I believe [snorts] it is and I could see that in Costello. I see it in Strummer. There's a trust. There's a calmness. There's a an availability to go more places. But many people they just like, "He's hungry. She's hungry. They missed me." You know, "They didn't know what they were doing." >> feel guilty because they didn't walk the dog. Mhm. Guilt plays a big role in raising dogs. >> Well, then let's stay on the walk for a moment. What what is so critical about the structured walk? I've been doing 2 hours a day or so of structured walk since he was little. And people say that's too much for a puppy. I I feel like he's been great with two 1-hour walks. >> It's because they forget instincts. Right? They forget instinct that a dog is instinctually is going to follow his parents to find food and water, right? Yes, they do it after 2 months of age cuz otherwise they will stay within the den, right? But from from two to four, they follow, you know, they follow and somebody's always taking care. You can see it in the African wild dogs. There is always somebody that supervises the litter. But they allow them to follow, right? And then they they they they they go to a certain stance because they're growing. But as soon as a dog gets into 6-8 months of age, that guy wants to walk more than 30 minutes. Guarantee. He doesn't want to stay in one place too long. >> So, all these people with their dogs home all day or some people will say, "Well, the dog has the yard running around the yard." It's not the same, right? Being able to run around a yard. >> With the yard becomes like the zoo, right? As an animal in the zoo with a yard. But does not natural. That's just practical for with human, right? And the human feels like, "Okay, I have a backyard. That's where the dog does exercise." But the dog is going in circles. So, exercise for a bird is going uh for a fish or you know, a a bird have to fly, a fish have to swim, and a dog has to walk. It's just the nature of each uh specie. Right? So, the walk is the most important activity in my eyes. Right? Look at the homeless people with their dogs. Why they can walk a dog off leash? >> You were the first person I ever heard say that homeless people are the best dog owners. >> And the humans who are blind, the humans who are blind dog is right next to them. Uh homeless people dog in the back. Right? So, what are they doing right? Well, the dog is following them. Right? If they're in a follower state. Uh and so, the dog the the the dog that lives with the blind is is not allowed to get distracted cuz it its purpose is to guide the the the blind. And the dog that lives with the homeless he's not allowed to go in front. Uh consciously or unconsciously, the dog stays in the back. Nine out of 10 uh homeless people have a pitbull. And the dog is well-behaved off leash. Right? >> a lot of them in my neighborhood. This is Los Angeles. >> It's incredible. Incredible, right? But in Mexico, every single dog in the whole country, every single dog is off leash. So, that's uh in America, the American dream for a lot of people is is to have a dog walk off leash. Cuz people pay a trainer to train their dog to be off leash. Well, this is the nature of a You see it it doesn't make any sense, you know, once you hear it. It's you just have to help them by practicing the ritual of not touching the dog, no eye contact. Let the dog be calm, surrender in front of you. Make sure during the walk he's also in the same state of mind. And before you feed him, do this for at least 3 weeks. Right? So, you get into this habit. Right? Then when you greet, when you walk, and when you feed. So, then this dog is going to have this beautiful silence, calm, surrender. And this is the dog you bring into dog parks or dog beaches. And then your job is to make sure that you uh the dog that your dog is going to play with has the same energy as your dog. You have to be selective, just like with kids, right? >> Yeah, I don't bring my dog to dog parks. I I used to >> need to. >> I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1. AG1 is a vitamin, mineral, probiotic drink that also includes prebiotics and adaptogens. I discovered AG1 way back in 2012, long before I ever had a podcast, and I've been taking it every day since. The reason I started taking AG1 and the reason I still take it every day is because AG1 is, to my knowledge, the highest quality and most comprehensive of the foundational nutritional supplements on the market. AG1 is designed to support things like gut health, immune health, and overall energy. And it does so by helping to fill any gaps that you might have in your daily nutrition. I get asked pretty much all the time, if I could only take one supplement, what should that supplement be? And my answer is always AG1. 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If you'd like to try Eight Sleep, go to eightsleep.com/huberman to get up to $350 off the new Pod 5. Eight Sleep ships to many countries worldwide including Mexico and the UAE. Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman to save up to $350. I've followed your recommendation with Costello and also a Strummer. Uh exercise, discipline, and then affection. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> And for many people, you know, they're going to hear that. I mean, it's reflexive for you now, of course. Um this is your domain. Uh but they're going to be like, this but they don't want to walk first thing in the morning. I want to cuddle with my dog first thing in the morning. I mean, my household now, I had to be really clear, like there's if we don't follow this, we're damaging the opportunities for Strummer. We're We're actually hurting his psychological well-being. And the only hard part uh with him is he doesn't necessarily like to wake up early, but sometimes have to walk him early, so it takes a little bit of uh extra encouragement. >> Mhm. >> The day always starts with a walk. Then discipline training. And then food. >> Yeah. >> And then some affection. >> Yeah. >> But it's not hours of like cuddling on the couch or anything. It's like a, you know, I mean, I I love him. I would love to pick him up and and >> Right. >> treat him like a little baby >> Right. >> much more often than I do. >> Right. >> Uh but I They see the incredible results that come from this exercise discipline and then affection. >> Which is even a natural life as love. Cuz you're right, it's good we we we want them to live as natural as possible. And uh and and so that's love. In in my eyes, like exercise discipline. Discipline is not punishment. Cuz that's a word and then the animal dog people, when they hear the word discipline on the dog, they put as punishment. >> Yeah, they're thinking it's a teacher hitting them. >> Yeah, like >> Yeah. >> punishing the dog. And no, you're just making sure the dog follows the rules by limitations. You the dog follows a structure, you know, and that's what we call discipline. Right? And and and that's how we achieve becoming well-behaved or achieving success because we have to be disciplined. Right? And so a lot of times what I what I end up helping people is understanding the word. So so the block doesn't block the word doesn't block them from doing the right thing. Right? Which is your job as a as a as a pet parent cuz now is the title pet parent. Right? Is is direction protection. Then love. Yeah, but most dog people want to do affection affection affection. And when it should be exercise discipline and affection, body mind heart. >> I think the the walking part is so key, obviously, and I I'll just say it. Um you tell me if you agree or disagree if you want, but um I think most people are just lazy. They don't want to walk. And if they walk, they don't want to do it without talking on their phone or looking at their phone. And the dog can sense if your energy is on the walk or the energy is someplace else. >> Or you connect or you disconnect. >> Mhm. >> Or you're in a flexi leash with a harness on and you're on the phone, which are the the worst. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, it's so it's so it's it's it's the moment where you are connected to mother nature and through the dog, right? And people now, you know, they see God is dog backwards. All right, so you're connected to spirit and you're connected to earth. But you can't be connected to technology. And the phone is the same thing. Is the phone is for connection, communication, relationship. So does the dog. Connection, communication, relationship to God, to Earth, to you. And so then you create that triangle and then the dog is inside that bubble. You know, oh this human is really respecting God. This human is really respecting Earth. This really This human is really respecting the moment. So you create this vibe. Right? And the dog is in a follower state, so he's going to imitate the energy that you're in. Right? And And so what is prayer? An imitation of everybody doing the same energy. >> It's so fascinating that your relationship to dogs has opened up this understanding of human behavior, but not just how we behave, but how we relate to the the entire world. Like the energetics. This keeps coming up in our discussion. I feel I have other practical questions, but I want to touch on something that you mentioned before we started recording, which is that in a third world country Yeah. people are aware of death very early on. And so the connection to the spiritual comes first and all the rest follows. The complete inversion of somebody like me who was born in northern California. It's like Silicon Valley. Didn't call it that then and you learn everything through the the logical structures and you know, science and and my dad's a scientist and but and even if one loves poetry and music and things like that, which I do, the order is through the sort of like bricks on the ground first and but there's no concept of death actually until your grandparent dies or an animal dies or something. Tell me about this relationship to death and how it structures the the psyche and the energy of people in third world countries because it it's a direct outgrowth of everything we're talking about. These things are going to be extremely useful to people in regardless of where they live in the world. >> I think that's the first step, you know, to learn not to be afraid of of Right? That's the first step. It cuz I in in America they don't want nothing to die, but is is just what it is, right? Birth, life, and death. So, it's just That's when in the Mexican culture we have the El Dia de los Muertos, the Day of the Dead. So, we learn to to be okay with it. We learn to accept it because, you know, in Mexico or third world country, death is everywhere. You can see it everywhere. You know, I'm from the north of Mexico, Sinaloa. And you see people with the chopped heads and hanged up and, you know, you go to school and people are are dead. So, what do you what do you end up doing in that in this moment? You end up believing that God will protect you. That's your spirituality. Right? And just like what I don't want a a person to break into my house, you get a dog. >> [laughter] >> Right? And so that the mother nature to protect you. So, for us when when we grow up that way seeing death everywhere, we learn to surrender to this higher power. Right? And we are what you believe, you know? So, it's it's really good, you know, in in in our experience to be able to surrender to death, but at the same time we also surrender that somebody's going to give us direction, protection, love. The same thing is the pack leader. Right? And we just surrender to that. Right? And as well we surrender to earth giving us food and taking care of earth cuz it's a it's a it's a combination of spirituality and instincts in a third world country. >> So, it's almost like people in third world countries place sort of they see the reality of death early and they place themselves in a a sort of hierarchy. They look upward often times, not always, but often times these are religious people, right? Um my father's from Argentina and is a Catholic country and is a >> Latinos for for by design we we are taught to uh first. And then second is mother nature. Right? Yeah, it's number you know, that's the It's like an order. And then you have to go to work. Right? So, job is number three. And then you have to love the family. And then love is at the at the end. Right? But it's God first, Earth second, which and then it's family or work. >> Well, here in the United States, it's we're raised very differently. >> Yeah, self first. >> And it's also this idea that stuff is the portal to >> happiness. >> That's right. >> Having latest phone, having access to all the apps. >> Shoes, a lot of shoes. >> Shoes, bags. >> up with one pair of shoes. You know, one pair of shoes. And so we grew up with very nothing. But then so what How do we stay happy? Right? How do we stay happy? So, it becomes like a belief system, right? And so that belief system has helped a lot of people that I know there to stay happy. It's just a happy people with nothing. With just the key, right? You first have to be learn to be happy, healthy, loving, smart with nothing. Then when you have something, and then you're already happy, healthy, loving, smart. Right? It just adds into your accomplishments. But animals don't understand money, fame, power. Animals understand natural, simple, profound. So, that's the part that I grew up in. >> Natural, simple, profound. >> Natural is your instinct. Simple is to love. Profound is your spirit. Natural, simple, profound. So, even if you're not smart, right? You can still be natural, simple, profound and have an amazing relationship with animals. Incredible. Right? Even if you're not you don't know how to read, you don't know how to write, you don't know where Europe is. But you can still have an amazing relationship with God and with mother nature and with your family. Right? Therefore, if you're good to those three, you're good to you. >> I used to joke cuz I'd bring Costello to my lab with me. My lab had about 15 people. I'd walk in with him and and he'd go around and he like walking into the lab he'd see all the students and people working. He used to bring his toy around to each of them sitting at their desk or trying to get them to play. >> [clears throat] >> He was part of the lab and and people really I like to think they loved him. They told me anyway that. But I used to look at him sometimes I think it he doesn't care that I'm the professor. He doesn't care that's the best part about this relationship. He doesn't care. He doesn't care even if we go home at night. Sometimes I would sleep in the lab back then. He doesn't care. He just wants us to be together. He wants his walks. He likes to pee on things and I just realized he just kind of wants to be around the joy of family, a laboratory. He just wants to be part of this and it really helped me to just remove the the the concept that he even knew what roles were or jobs [clears throat] were. It's just this place we went. I think dogs are wonderful way to look at the world differently and realize both how different we are as a species but also all these things that we've created that these are just human creations and they're important. Jobs are important obviously but but to not project that onto him but also it's very useful to not project that onto people in the world. I'm not going to point at any specific colleagues but I knew people who were very who are very prominent in their field and the way they go into the world is almost like disappointed because people weren't feeding them the adoration that they felt they deserved. But no one cares, right? Cuz they're in their own experience and I just mentioned this because yeah in your book and and these teachings of the that we've been talking about in today, they they taught me a lot about the human energetics. We're not dogs so we can't just transfer that in but it told me that like most of the time when we think we're operating from a place of like knowledge and roles and all this stuff there's something that's been constructed by humans like a uniform to show this person is in charge. They have all the stuff that reveals their accomplishments. The degrees on the wall. You take that stuff away and it's a very different kind of interaction. Like, who's this person? Like, what are they about? Like, what moves them forward or back? Are they a good person or a bad person? Are they scared? And it it I think it's very helpful if people learn to tap into this a little bit. >> when I go to people's home, uh the human tells you the story and the dog tells you the truth. Just by you looking at them. That's it. The dog immediately tells, "This is the energy we feel. This is the philosophy we practice and this is the actions we do." Immediately, the dog always He's the most honest member of your house. They don't know how to lie. See it? They don't know they don't know how to to to do what we humans do. They don't just just just just don't, right? So, it's I listen to the human because I I need to understand, okay, where is this human stuck? Right? And then through that conversation, I go, "Okay, what about it if we think of Don't think of spirit. Think about silence. Do you like silence? Okay, silence is part of the spiritual world. And what about calmness? Calmness I think I'm calm. Okay, let's breathe." And then I I change the the instinctual world just by just breathing, right? And then I start giving the information so the intellectual world is more simple, right? It's more clear with the nose, eyes, ears. Rules by limitation. I'm just giving this simple information, right? So, [clears throat] your mind knows how to execute. Right? And then when do I love? Hold on. Just Just wait. Wait. And And then when the dog goes "Now." That's when you love. Cuz I want to teach people to love silence, to love calmness, to love an open mind. Cuz people had learned to love an excited dog, an anxious dog, a dog that that had that was a victim, right? So, if you rescue a dog and then that dog was in a bad situation, that person goes and rescues a dog because he feels bad. And then if that same person starts telling everybody in the family what happened to that dog, So now the whole entire family feels bad for the dog. So when they describe the dog, they describe the past. So they learn to love the past. Cuz they feel sorry for this dog. So the dog now is fearful, controlling the house, you know, has it and doesn't listen to [clears throat] the humans. At the moment I grab the same dog and I bring him to the ranch and I give him silence, calmness and be part of the pack, that dog changes. They live in the moment. So really what happened to the past to a dog a month ago, a year ago is irrelevant. It's irrelevant. What's relevant is how do you treat him now? Right? And the only thing they need to to become good is is safe, peace environment. A trust, respect human with exercise, discipline or the or exercise, mental stimulation, activities. Then the love comes at the end. Safe, peace, love. Trust, respect, love. Exercise, discipline, affection. See, love is number three. It's a reward. Right? It's a reward. How do you stay happy? Well, and then you are grateful. How do you stay healthy? You learn how to breathe and do exercise. How do you stay smart? Well, you learn, you achieve and you give it away. Or you learn to turn your mind off. And then Uh so when do I practice love? Well, practice love once you master your spirit, your instinct and your mind. Then love that thing about you. Right? Love Love Love those three things about you. Your silence, your faith, your calmness, your trust to you and then your confidence, your mind. Love that. >> [laughter] >> Can dogs smell stress? >> Yeah. Feel stress, it smells. But remember, it's it's it's the feeling of the energy that you have inside, your electricity, right? You're You're not functioning normal, then that same energy is going to create a chemistry. Right? Then you're going to sweat and I mean, it's just going to go into a the nose, eyes, ears. And but it's first is without the nose, eyes, ears, just the animal in them is going to sense. Let's When an earthquake is about to come they sense it way before it it trembles. You see it? So that energy of mother nature is shifting at a such a high low level of sensitivity then then we see then we hear things. >> Humans are so obsessed with dog {quote} {unquote} intelligence that looks like our intelligence. Like if I see another video of like how many words a dog can learn or you know dogs doing tricks or walking on their hind legs. I None of that impresses me. And I also like cephalopods octopuses have a couple of them actually and I'm fascinated by them and people think they're extremely intelligent and they maybe, but I'm interested in their intelligence. You can find a video of a guy who taught an octopus to play a piano. But if you look at the training process it was just shaping, right? Reward this and reward that. That video I'll go on record saying totally unimpressive to me. It tells you far more about the trainer's willingness to painstakingly shape an animal than it does about octopuses at all. I I mean I'm not saying a an ant or a plant could have learned to play the piano, but what he did could be done with a horse if it just had big keys. So it's there's nothing interesting about this, but humans we seem obsessed with transferring our let's keep it to first world because that seems aligned here. Our first world understanding of what intelligence and knowledge is and skill is and putting that onto other species. And it it's crazy. It's crazy. It doesn't reveal anything except our own short-sightedness and and stubbornness about being unwilling to think about these other ways of communication and moving through the world. >> Well, is that that self-oriented first versus pack-oriented, you know, what is what the pack needs versus what is what you want? Right? So that that is more like what where when the human just wants a baby for example and they get a dog. Humanizing a dog is a is a good for the dog, no? Right? It's not good. It's good for the human, you know, it's good for the human fantasy and and fulfillment, uh emotional fulfillment or whatever thing they have in their mind. But is it is it good for the dog to be a human? Why would he wants to be a human? Why they don't try try to do the same thing with a cat? Because the what they say is is a cat. So, you can't humanize a cat. >> [laughter] >> You see what I'm saying? So, the cat sends the human hell, right? Yeah, cuz a cat only comes whenever he wants to come, so you can't influence anybody who doesn't want to be with you. Yeah, right? The dog, you have to teach him to live without you. Right? He has to learn to keep you distant cuz he's a pack oriented. So, you you can influence a dog much quicker than you influence a cat. Right? You can't influence anybody who doesn't want to follow you. >> How do you feel about cats? >> I love cats. I love all animals, you know. I I was going to invite you to the ranch cuz we have all the species and we can assess and evaluate your dog better, right? With the chickens and the dogs and the different species, so so we can see the prey drive. You know, and you can you you you you you you are going to be able to see do you have a dog with prey drive and how do we block it? Right? Or you have a dog with play drive and you just leave it open. >> Yeah, I'd love to bring Strummer out there. >> it's a good place because your dog gets to interact not just with dogs, but with other species that trigger the prey drive. Very, very important cuz what makes your dog social is that he learns to accept others. See, I I don't want a dog that that that has a protective drive or I'm not interested in that, right? I just want a dog that accepts everybody. Yeah, and that's a dog that is going to give you zero lawsuits, zero liability, right? Cuz he accepts everybody. >> Yeah, I know people in California in particular whose dogs charged other people lawsuits. Like it even if they didn't bite, it's that's a whole thing. >> a lawsuit. It could be a dog that was not meant for protection. But because it doesn't have rules, boundaries, limitations, it doesn't walk and you know, every day the dog is bored, confused, or frustrated. And then he releases that because he's a predator. Dog by nature is a predator. They're going to move forward to release energy. You see it? So, but you want them to move forward with the right state of mind. Right? Or when you tell the dog to move forward. Right? That's That's just discipline. And but people don't don't have that kind of understanding. And the dog end up doing whatever they want. So, the dog end up, you know, putting people in a loss of which another another uh place where the dog doesn't know you're getting sued about it, you know? So, he's not going to Oh my god, we're going to We're going to lose money, you know? The dog is not going to understand that concept. >> Yeah, we as humans we we project so much onto other species, other people. And in the backdrop of everything we're talking about, I'm I'm hoping that people are seeing the ways in which they can show up into circumstances with more calmness. >> Yep. >> Especially if it's not reflexive. You know, before every episode, I I pray. I do. I I ask for certain things. I try and to open up certain things so that um I realize not all of this is under our control. That's my belief. And I try and invite certain things in. So, it's not reflexive. I do it as a You call it a a discipline. I'm happy to do it, but um I think people assume that you're either calm or you're an anxious person. People assume that their dog is either calm or anxious. This is a terrible misconception. I think we we can become calmer regardless of where we are in our natural levels of anxiety. >> do not will never choose anxiety or be a living anxious life. We're the only species that follow unstable leaders. Right? So, to be the pack leader in a in the animal world, you have to be the most patient, the most calm, the most confident, the most loving, the more joyful. Everything has to be at 100%. Then you can be a pack leader. Right? And your job is to resolve problems. That's practically it. So, the least thing you can do is to bring problems, anxiety, fear, insecurities. All of that stuff is is something that you bring back home. You don't want that. >> So, before people hit the door coming home, they should do a a check-in with themselves. >> prayer, [clears throat] too. God, just let me be silent, calm, confident, loving, joy to my dog. That's it. I might I want to practice no touching, no talking, no eye contact, and just help my dog to calm down, and then I'm going to give him affection. I'm not saying not to give affection. I'm just saying give affection to patience and calmness and open mind. Right? Cuz when you when your dog misbehave, you want him to go back there. Go back to your good state of mind, right? You don't want the dog to do fight-flight-avoidance. Those are the bad state of mind. The good state of mind is patience, calm, surrender, or happy-go-lucky. Those are good state of mind. >> I think here I'm projecting a lot and assuming a lot, but I think a lot of people deep down, I think they probably like that their dog is so, quote-unquote, happy to see them at the end of the day. Because I think many people feel devoid of real love and connection, and the idea that their fur baby, I really don't like this term. They're not babies. Yes, they have fur, but like I think out of respect for animals, we have to remember that they're animals first. I When I heard first heard you say like they're, you know, their spirit animal, you know, species, and then breed, and then the name. It was so helpful for me. Because I don't want to get into it here cuz it's not directly relevant, but in science, I've worked with humans. I worked with animals, and I you know, I stopped working with animals cuz it was really hard on my soul. Yeah. I understand biomedical research. I understand what is a whole other discussion, but even just the way that people would start to talk about animals, like we work on them, not with them. And this is a complicated issue we could get into sometime, but I started to realize that we start using words to either dehumanize or humanize animals. And both are terrible. So when I heard you give this description of, you know, spirit animal, etc. I was like, he's saying don't humanize >> Right. >> these animals because it makes them feel unsafe. >> Yeah. >> Or or confused. >> Or confused. Yeah. And years later I realized again, with all due respect to biomedical research and the need to make discoveries, I do think there's too much animal research that's unnecessary, these kinds of things, some is essential, but may etc. But I realized there we're dehumanizing animals. And I thought, oh my goodness, cuz I had this incredible contradiction in my mind. It was a real soul dilemma. Like, I love Costello. I I I it was like he he was a family member. And I was willing to do all this work on myself and with him, but in my profession, I was observing things where I thought this is not okay. And I stopped and I work with humans. Even saying I work on humans, you hear scientists say this is terrible, terrible. And I think words matter to humans and because they shape how we behave. >> Correct. >> And so I'm noticing a theme uh throughout today where you have s- words and simple ways for people to remember, no look, no touch, no speak, right? Exercise discipline then affection, etc. That's telling people people stuff in people language. But the level that you're really interested in and you're trying to convey is the animal experience and then the spiritual experience. I'm not trying to psychoanalyze you here, but I I this is the structure that I hear emerging that I think will be very useful to people Because we're going high-level, low-level all the time. So, if people could start to think about themselves in this way and think about their animals. >> I think a lot of people are going to say, "Oh, no. I come home and I want to be loved by my fur babies and I want them to and I miss you and I want to do FaceTime with you and like, you know, and I think people genuinely, however, want their animal to >> They want their animal to feel secure. >> Number one. >> And when I think about real love, it's about safety and security first. >> Mhm. >> So, for someone that has like the other day I was in the hospital visiting a friend and the woman behind the counter, we were talking and she said, she said, "I have two Frenchies." >> Mhm. >> I said, "Well, you work long shifts." She goes, "Yeah, they're home alone. I come home, they're pooping and peeing. I feel so guilty." >> That's right. >> And my first thought was, you shouldn't own those dogs. But she's in love with the dogs. >> Right. >> I thought, "Well, okay." So, I passed along a little bit of what I learned. She said, "I" and she just said flat out, "I can't do it. I can't do it. There's no way I could come home and they're going crazy and I'm and excited to see me that I couldn't just pick them up and then just hold them." >> But it's making them anxious. >> She's nurturing them. >> Yeah. >> The same nerves that is helping humans to be healthy, she's helping her dogs to be unhealthy. It's so contrary. That's exactly what you were going through, you know, working with humans versus working on humans, right? So, she's helping other specie, right? But the specie that she's in love with, she is not. But it's because the story she is is accepting in her head. She's agreeing with that, right? This I have so much guilt that I can't stop it, right? Cuz that's what she's trying to do, to numb her her guilt. >> When I was growing up, most people didn't have dogs in our neighborhood. Suburban neighborhood. Um there were a few dogs. Now, everyone's got a dog. It's like having a phone. Everyone's got a dog. This doesn't seem like a good thing. >> It's a great thing for me cuz I get I love to teach people, you know, about energy, philosophy, and actions. I want people to have a trust, respect, love, the most incredible relationship with a dog cuz you know, that's a dog really makes you a good human if you do things right. And then once you practice that, you can just give it to other humans cuz it makes it tangible. Does energy really work? Yeah. What about if I have a good philosophy? Does that really work? Yeah, it works. What about if my actions are good? Does that really work? Yes. Now you combine the three and watch what your dog does, right? And then you go and do the same thing with other humans. Right? So you create this beautiful trust, respect, love with humans, or connection, communication, relationship. You go and create safe, peace, and love environments. Horse people are really good about safety. Right? So So the priority in the horse world is not love. The priority is safe. So So a horse person is going to teach a child don't scream, not touch the dog, no eye contact, right? So the kid will learn that with a horse you have to be quiet, calm, and wait until the horse give you the signal. And the same person will go and teach the kid with dogs ask if you can pet them. Right? But because in the horse world safety is number one, how do you keep a horse calm? And you wait. And then the horse calm What it What How do they walk a horse? The walk The horse is right behind next to the human, never in front. Right? So people can people you can see a little kid walking a horse. You see it? And the horse is behind the kid, not in front of the kid. But first is the meeting, and then the third thing is feeding the horse. If the horse is too excited, don't put the hay yet. Wait until the horse comes down, then the hay goes down. The meeting, the walk, and the feeding. >> Incredible. And they're big, so we have this natural respect for them that people don't necessarily have for a dog, but a dog obviously can bite, you know. >> But why not have that respect for someone that we say, you know, man a dog is man's best friend. Yeah, the dog has the best titles of all the animals in the on earth. Right? The dog. But when it comes to the actions, we don't honor the dog because we want the dog to be a human. We don't respect the dog because we want the dog to be a human. When you honor and respect somebody, you honor who they are. You respect who they are. You learn about how they are, and that's what you love. See it? You love who they are. You don't love what you think. You love who they are. >> And you don't try and project that they're somebody else. I think some people making assumptions here, but some people will hear some of what we're talking about today and they'll say, oh, well, that's how I should become the pack leader with people. I should never let anyone walk through a door before me or something like But the point you're trying to make is that human to human is different than animal to human. You don't just transfer the same thing. Some things transfer, but other things don't. >> Yeah. >> I've worked with non-human primates before. >> Okay. >> It's interesting, a lot of people go to the zoo. I'm not a big fan of, you know, putting large carnivores and primates in zoos. I'm not. I want to be clear. I don't, you know, I I I have issues with that. But people will smile at the monkey or they'll go like, you know, e e e e e. For a macaque monkey, bearing teeth is aggression. So, a friend of mine, she's an animal behaviorist, and she said, oh, no, if you if you want to do an affiliative behavior with with a monkey, you lip smack. Which sounds kind of cute and funny. And people go, oh, but you you could tell somebody that a hundred times, and they'll still go, e e e e e. Like it's like we want to project our own understanding of what we think is going on, and even in the presence of knowledge, your dog is going to feel more safe and secure and happy if you come in no look no touch no speak. >> Yeah. >> There's something about the human brain where we just want to project no, but I want my experience. And it's an incredibly selfish thing. It was really the realization for me that it's very selfish of me to come home and want a certain kind of interaction with my pet, Costello, but to put the interaction in the terms that work for me. I And I said, you know, this is the first time I owned a dog. Everyone in my life for the longest time they're like, you're never I was talking about it since I was a kid. You're never going to get a dog. I waited until I had the finances, until I had a home. I waited. I'm very proud of the fact that I waited. I desperately wanted an animal for so long since I was a little kid. I had fish and things like that, but I wanted a dog. I knew at the time when I got him that it was the right time. Yeah. But I had to be very careful because I wanted it to go so well that I found myself projecting. What if he doesn't >> Mhm. >> What And there was all this stuff and then I read your book and I realized if I want this to go really well, I have to get out of my understanding of what I need >> Mhm. >> on my terms and start thinking about what he needs and I need >> Mhm. >> in his language. >> Yeah. >> And it was like this light bulb went off. I'm just you know, this is really a a statement of gratitude that hopefully will be informative for people because we the human brain just says like, no, I want to be loved and so I'm going to do this thing that's actually harming the thing that I I say is my fur baby. >> Yeah. >> Like no one would ever hurt their fur babies, but they're they're doing it. >> Yeah. >> By projecting human stuff. Anyway, I'm telling you what you already know, but I think it's just something I really want to underscore because people hear affection last. Like this is just a you know, guys being like, I'm alpha. No, it's the complete opposite of it. It's about respecting the animal. >> Yeah. It's it's about safe, peace, trust, respect. Once you have those two pillars, then you bring the love. Cuz that's what you want to love. You want to love the trust and respect. Not because you love people, you trust them. Not because you love people, you respect them. So, love love has his own energy, his own, you know, identity. But, you want to love trust. You want to love respect. That's what you want to love. You want to [clears throat] love a place that you feel safe and peace. That's what you want to love. That's the land part, right? And then the relation, trust, respect. Then, you know, the way you experience the world, body, mind, heart. Right? So, at least those three things. Just do it that way, you know, just put love at the end. It won't hurt you. It would only make you wiser, right? It will only make you more patient, more more more more more calm. And And you will see the outcome. Right? The reason why I said no touch, no talk, no eye contact is because if you want to touch a a back of the pack dog, he's going to run away. If you give eye contact to a front of the pack dog, is exactly what the monkeys is means it means fight when you're looking at somebody. I'm going to touch him, right? And then when you talk to a to a middle of the pack, you're going to get him very excited. So, if you practice no touch, no talk, no eye contact to any position of the pack, what you're going to allow is nose, eyes, ears to come to you. You see it? So, you're going to create a law of attraction. The dog is going to come to your smell. And then he's going to assess and evaluate, can I trust? Can I respect? Do I feel safe? Are you a peaceful human? That's what you want them to know about you. That you can be trusted. That you can be respected. That you feel That you can be a safe source, a peaceful source. Then, once the dog is Okay, yeah, you have that. Then the dog is going to sit right next to you. He's going to do this, or he's just going to relax. As soon as he gives you that, that's when you give love. So, it's nothing wrong if you wait a little bit. Right? It's nothing wrong. You just You're just following the steps. You are the one who's being disciplined. You see it? To be a good leader, you have to be a good follower. So, you have to understand the power of calm surrender. You have to understand the power of patience. If you don't understand it, you're going to be a terrible leader. So, I'm not telling people be a pack leader just because you you're the dog owner. No, no, no. I'm telling you what it requires to be a pack leader. The highest level of patience, the highest level of calmness, highest level of confidence, and then knowing when to give love and know when to celebrate. Love, joy, it's a celebration energy. This one is direction, protection. What do we want of our pack leaders like politicians? We want them to We want to have an an America that feels safe peace. We want to have a Mexico that feels safe peace. We want to have a Argentina that feels safe peace. We want to have a Colombia that feels safe peace. We want to have a Venezuela that feels safe peace. Otherwise, we can't feel the love. We want to have somebody that we trust and respect so we can love them. Right? That's what we want. It's It's our instinct to want this. It's our spirit to to want this. >> I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, Function. Function provides over 160 advanced lab tests to give you a clear snapshot of your bodily health. 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It's like, who is more certain of the statement they're making? Correct. This is like, and this is like just seems to be the thing we select for. Not the traits you're describing. I got my theories as to why that's so, but I think we can all look around and see see how that's going. I just go back to >> learn a lot from animals, right? I think all leaders should should show us, you know, themselves with a pack of of dogs so we can assess and evaluate their energy well. You know, cuz they they they say the philosophy we want to hear. Right? They always talk great about the intellectual part people want to hear. But then the energy and then the actions, that's what we end up seeing at the end, right? Look at Mexico, right? We always, "Oh, a woman president. Yes, Mexico is going to be well taken care." Same. No safe, no peace, no trust, no respect. It's the same. It's a continuation of the same philosophy, but they're all say great things. You see what I mean? I don't like to dogs. I I say, you know, "Listen, I'm going to bring you back your your your silence, your calmness, your surrender. That's my contribution to you because you humans made you fight, flight, avoidance. And boom, I don't say nothing to the dog. I just feel it and I do it. I skip the saying. Cuz they don't care about what I say. They care about what I feel and what I do. The human cares about what you say. So, you can just brainwash the human all you want, lie to the human, and the human will vote. We're the only species that follow unstable leaders. There is no species that will vote for somebody they have unstable leading energy to begin with. They can't care less what they say. >> I watched that uh series on Netflix, Chimp Empire. It's fascinating, you know, they they're very hierarchical, you know, troops. And the the alpha occasionally will feel like he's losing some control over his uh troop. >> Mhm. >> And he'll go on these displays where he starts breaking trees and beating his chest. And they look a lot more like humans. Humans look a lot more like them. But I saw a an interview with Jane Goodall. Um I think you've probably seen this where they said, you know, what what is your favorite thing about them? And she and she says, "No, dogs are my favorite species. You can really trust them." >> All right. >> The chimps are like humans. They're way too much like us. They lie, they cheat, they I mean, if you watch Chimp Empire, brace yourself for, you know, when they decide they're going to ostracize a member of their of their >> They'll ostracize them. >> It's uh they make them suffer an extended punishment. It's It's brutal. And that's the primate brain. Um sadly, uh humans were Yeah. supposed to move beyond that. That's That's uh our role. Uh I'm making the assumption that some people either have a dog or they're thinking about getting one. Correct. Preparing oneself for every interaction sounds like the the thing uh [snorts] to do until it becomes reflexive. It also It's a lot of work. Like you described it, you know, brief prayer at the door, setting intention. I think that's awesome. >> Yeah, good habits. >> Waking up in the morning. >> Mhm. >> I will say hello to Strummer. I take care of myself first, move about. If he has to use the bathroom or something, I'd let him out right away, but he waits. And then he gets up and then we do our our thing. But the temptation to walk over there and just he's, you know, he's sleepy. He's a bulldog. He's calm and should just grow like cuz I love him. My heart fills when I when I, you know, walk in the room with him. >> Yeah. >> I think this is the thing that a lot of people are challenged with. But they're like So, for me, temporarily breaking down my notion of cuteness was very important. >> Mhm. He doesn't understand cute. >> Right. He has no concept of cute. He only understands what he understands. I'm the one projecting a lot of Oh, but he's like, I want to cuddle him and I want to play with him. I confess this is easier for me to do now that I've done it with one dog before. It's much harder for my girlfriend to do. She's like she gets pulled in. >> Yeah. >> We joke you you caved to love. We joke, you know, it's like we caved to our own feelings of love. >> Correct. >> But it can damage the safety and the and the and the the general pack order. And then people think, "Oh, pack order sounds like not love." Could you elaborate a little bit on why it's so important to [clears throat] stay in the frame of We're really asking humans to think more like dogs, but to behave in a way that is somewhere in between. >> 80% of my clients are women. 80%. When I go to, you know, their home because I like to assess and evaluate the dynamics inside the house. The dog is in the front. Wife is number two. Kids are number three. Husband is in the back. Back of the pack. >> This is in the United States? >> In the United States. Yeah, yeah, yeah. United States. So, um why the dog is in the front? She puts him there. Why? Because she only practice affection. And why the husband is in the back? Cuz she practice rules, boundaries, limitations with him. You see it? So, look look. So, she is capable to practice leadership, but she practice it with the wrong member in the house. The dog needs the leadership. Right? Cuz what why did they call me? Cuz now the dog doesn't the kids can't walk him. You know, the the friends kids can come to the house. The dog steals food. Right? Or the dog barks at the neighbors. Right? They don't have the ideal life that they chose or they thought they were going to have by having this Labradoodle. It should be the easiest one, right? Cuz those two breeds are practically, you know, the the epitome of like most docile breed. >> I know. >> Right? >> the Labradoodle people like try raising a bulldog mastiff. Right? >> Yeah. >> From 8 weeks on. >> Yeah, it's just >> Like you'll learn a lot about yourself. >> It's a it's a different strength. >> Yeah. >> Right? So, this breed should be easier. Mhm. Because it's designed to be easier. But because they only practice affection first, or only affection, uh the dog end up going in front of the pack. >> Mhm. >> So, this is what happens when people wants to practice affection first or when when they prioritize affection to the dog, but to the rest of the pack, uh it's very clear for me that she practice rules, boundaries, limitations to the husband. He has to do whatever she said. But the dog doesn't do whatever she says. You see it? So, that we have to change, you know? We have to help people to understand. It's It's not that love is bad. It's It's just what are you giving love to? >> I'm so happy you're raising this. I think some people will say, "Well, she has to treat the husband basically like a child because he's playing video games." I'm making the assumption here that we don't know what the dynamics are between the husband and the wife. And I I I a lot of married couple friends where it seems very balanced. I don't know what happens when I'm not there [clears throat] obviously, but I know somewhere yes indeed like there's some infantilization of the male, but he does that to himself too. He's behaving like a kid. >> Right. >> Or I also have seen very balanced and I've seen where it's a bit more of kind of the structure I grew up in at least for the early part of my life. Maybe it's cuz my father's from South America, but until my parents split it was like my dad was the dad and then it was my mom and then you know and then there was the kids and sadly we didn't have a dog. Things are very different nowadays. >> Yeah. >> Right? And so I'm trying to remove any assumptions that the dynamic between the husband and wife are that way solely because of one or the other. It's It's there's an agreement there. >> It's correct. >> There's always an agreement, yeah, right? >> is that he surrender. >> Mhm. >> Yeah, that's the agreement. At one point you don't want fight flight avoidance, so the guy end up surrendering. But the dog didn't. The dog took over. >> And you also don't want so domineering that she's in flight flight surrender either, right? >> Correct. You don't want that. >> That that That exists too and that's bad also. >> Yeah, my relationship now with a woman is is I have that a good instinctual relationship. Right? Cuz my masculine energy is the the one who gives direction protection. When before I used to follow this concept of happy wife happy life. And it's how can I make her happy? She has to make herself happy, so I end up surrendering to everything she wanted. And and so this concept of you know happy wife happy life didn't work for me. Right? But and so I just went back into okay, I'm just going to become confident and attract a woman that wants to be come surrender to this area, which is the instinctual area. Spiritually we're the same, emotionally we're the same, financially, you know, we're the same. Um but instinctually that's the part that I I I I couldn't I couldn't just not be masculine, right? Or come confident. I just couldn't. I just couldn't. And that's that's it works beautiful now. >> Oh, it sounds um like you you've hit the bull's-eye there. Actually, I have since we're talking about human relationships, uh I have a friend he has a very happy, very successful marriage um in in the real sense that you walk into their home like they they have some uh they have a couple of kids. One of them has some special needs, but that um they're managing that well. The home is very balanced. They seem very, very happy. And he was giving advice uh to some other guys uh and he said, you know, among the the the women that would be like partners, good partners for you, >> Mhm. >> yeah, you have to make a decision about how much you want somebody who's going to give you instructions versus leave you alone versus wants you know, some direction. >> Mhm. >> It's a very edgy thing to say, you know, at the time. Now, you can have these kinds of conversations. >> Um Yeah, and it and it was very interesting. There were three other guys at the table, none of whom are are married, including me, and we each had different answers to that question. One said, yeah, I want somebody that I can like really be in like kind of wants to be led. >> Right. >> Not subservient, you know, obviously respect and kindness and all that, but but the other one >> [laughter] >> he said, um no, I want someone who's like >> really going to like keep me in line. >> Mhm. >> I was like, this is incredible. But he was being he was being honest. He wants someone who's basically going to like keep him out of his childlike nature >> Okay. >> when the childlike nature wasn't going to help >> Right. >> but keep the structure of the home. I think it's a very important thing this notion of um we don't have good words for this to keep us off of the barbed wire. Like we hear dominance, hierarchy, and it sounds like control. >> Mhm. It sounds like subservience. It gets into notions of like all sorts of things. But this is a fundamental aspect of the human spirit. >> That's the instinct to a part. Like I said, we [clears throat] can both love God at the same level. We can love love at the same level and we can all develop our intelligence at the same level. But when it comes to instincts, that's the only area in my life that I know that I my calm confidence is going to lead my pack. Right? Cuz that's what I do with dogs. That's practically it. I I walk a pack of dogs. So they're all got to go into a calm surrender state. And so in my house I wanted the same thing cuz I want her to feel safe peace. I want her to trust respect. I wanted her to love that about me. But I have to [clears throat] be that man that has a high level of patience, high level of calmness, high level of confidence, high level of love. And I need to earn that position. I don't just want it. I earned it. But I need to have a woman that uh understands, you know, that that's what I'm looking for. Right? >> Yeah. >> Instinctually. Not in the mind, not in the heart which is temporary. No, no, no. This is permanently. >> Mhm. >> You know, your instincts. And I I will provide safe peace. I will be a peaceful man, a safe man to be with, a trustworthy man, a respectful man, a loving man, right? A smart man. I will always work on having good energy and only following good philosophy and only doing good actions. Cuz I want that position. >> Did you take some time before your uh current relationship after your divorce to sort of feel into this and and think about how you were going to be that or um is this something that you decided to evolve in the uh as a person? >> that I was picking the I was picking the wrong woman. Right? I I was I was I I couldn't understand why I can pick a dog and and make him the perfect dog. [laughter] I can pick a perfect dog for you. Like I can go pick a I couldn't pick up the perfect woman for me. I just want the one for me. Right? What I think is perfect for me. And so, I I had a a trouble because I had the wrong philosophy inside my head. You know, what a man should should do or what a man woman should do. It was the wrong philosophy, period. Right? Once I changed the philosophy, then I went, "Okay, I just I need to find a woman with this spirit, with this instinct, with this heart, and with this mind." So, I was more like clear, right? [clears throat] Okay, now now I know what I'm looking for. Right? And she's a pack leader. But not in the house. She's a pack leader. She has three restaurants. She has She has a lot of money. Right? Uh but she earned it. She did it on her own. Right? And and that was that was it. She came said, "I just want to give you my calm surrender." I said, "That's all I want from a woman." You know, to have a beautiful relationship. So, she >> knew that she wanted to be in the role that she currently is. >> Yeah. >> Also, like there was a a knowledge of self going into it. >> when she you know, she's doing her business, she has to be a pack leader. They get tired of being pack leaders. Right? They just just get tired of like I don't want to, you know, give direction and protection 24/7s even at home. So, at home she just wanted somebody to give her safe peace, trust, respect, calm surrender. That's She needed to connect to her instincts. Right? It's so it's important because, you know, she connects to to God. So, she's calm surrendered to God. Right? So, she's calm surrendered to the business. She's but she needed to be calm surrendered to a man. But it has to be the right man. So, I was I was the right man at that time, right? Cuz I I earned the position. You know, I didn't just muchisimas you don't earn in the position. You just a man and da da da. No, no, no. When you are good pack leader, you earn the position. You know who you are. You value who you are. And that's the and that's what you love. Self-knowledge, self-value, self-love. So, I did my my rehabilitation for me because, you know, even though my grandparents and my and my father taught me well about animals, they didn't teach me well about women. And they say, "You make money and you get whatever you want." That was it. >> Yeah, that's an incomplete >> How do I assess and evaluate this? That's the right woman. How do I How do I do How do I make sure I do good connection, communication, relationship? Everything I teach with a dog. How do I How can I achieve it with my same species? Right? But I didn't receive information. Right? I just I would I would just given a project. Right? And I accomplished I became money, fame, power, and I just went and grabbed whatever was available. >> Well, I can certainly say um my Well, I'll just be direct and why why tap it. I mean, I think my parents split because of a a power struggle about roles and power. Um and my father's from a Latin country, my mother's not, but irrespective of that it didn't matter. I used to think that was the reason, but it was Now, fortunately, they both remarried. They've been remarried for a very long time, very happily to their new partner. And my sister and I always say like they're like with their perfect fit. It just like works because of exactly what you're describing, these these dynamics. I mean, I think I didn't say it, but I saw online at some point someone said, you know, the way you destroy a country is to get the men and women to hate each other. And we see that a lot now. Um I like to think maybe things are improving a little bit, but so much of what we see because of anger at leaders, frustration with, you know, social dynamics and belief about what people can and can't become. All of this stuff has led to this place of a ton of distrust, but the power structure is all messed up. >> Yeah, they fight, fight, or avoid each other. Right? But they say they love each other. >> And they still, because there's an instinct there, they still desire each other. Right? I mean, men and women are still seeking to be together, but you hear the where they're, you know, all the guys are like kids, and you hear that all the women are, you know, they want something that they, you know, can't be achieved in this common thing. And you know, and I mean >> Confusing. >> Yeah, a lot of confusion. And of course, I know some very happy couples that that where they've worked it out. But the roles in those couples seem very it's like they're they're being themselves, and it just works. >> Yeah. >> I just don't want to think about it. I just want to feel it. Right? I just want my spirit, my instinct, and my heart. And I know what I got to do anyway. I'm 56. I know what I got to do. But I don't I just don't want to have a fight flight avoidance at home. >> Mhm. >> Right? I just don't want to have that ever ever ever ever. Right? So, it's it's very clear to me, you know, that uh that what I looking for is exactly what everybody looks for in a relationship, human dog. Safe, peace, love, trust, respect, love. Body, mind, heart, exercise, discipline, affection. Follow, play, explore. Everybody wants the same thing. They just do it with a different species. I want to be able to do it with a different species and my own species. You know, and and and and I'm >> [clears throat] >> I'm the happiest I've ever been. >> Yeah, yeah. >> You you breathe and exude happiness. I I have to say it's it's real. It's it's tangible. >> It's amazing cuz I was already happy with with my goal in life, right? My dream was to become the best dog trainer in the world. And I became the dog whisperer. So, I train humans. I don't train dogs, right? So, so this dream was bigger than what I thought. But then I couldn't have a good relationship with a woman, which was fascinating to me at that time why I have fight flight avoidance. Why I don't have calm, surrender, happy-go-lucky, calm, confident. Why don't? I'm not saying my woman is not calm, confident towards me. If I'm wrong, and then yeah, she can, you know, give direction protection. But if I'm not, there's no need. All right? So that That makes me a very consistent man with my with my role. That's it. I I keep my peace. I keep my my my patience, my calmness, my comfort, my love, my every single day of my life. I I don't miss one day even if I don't feel good. You see it? I internally I'm 100. >> Because with people, it only takes once to be on the receiving end of um an outburst to just There's always that little asterisk going forward. I share with you the um the deep desire, and fortunately I have it now to uh not have fight or flight at home. Um I >> a dog, either. >> Or from a dog, either, right? That always scares Exactly. So I'm guessing that the home you grew up in had a fair amount of fight or flight. Otherwise, maybe that would >> very It was very machismo, you know? My parents still live married. Uh but that's all, you know, it was it was this way of Oh, that's it, you know? So it was definitely a more like sadness, right? Cuz my mom was not allowed to do her own self. You know? And and so that's Oh, obviously not healthy for for the dream of of a woman. Right? So she has to, you know, have just be a mom and stay at home, and it was uh it was hard for her, you know? Um Yeah, but that's That's all I saw, you know? Uh Yeah, when when my dad would um discipline would discipline with anger. And when my mom would discipline would discipline with guilt. You know? And And I would say, "But that's It worked a little bit." Then [snorts] I come to America and there's, "Ah, it's It's a completely different way of looking at things." Right? You can work on your energy, you can work on your philosophy, you can work on your actions, and then you can become just as good as you are with a dog. Cuz I have an incredible relationship with dogs, right? And I have an incredible relationship with God because he definitely allowed me to become what I dream about. Right? And I came and did it in a different country. I have to learn a different language. Right? And then I went all over the world. That was God, right? Me following the spirit and and the instinct. Now I can tell you how I did it. But in the beginning when I jumped the border, it was all spiritual and it was all instinctual. It was all passion. It was not the mind doing it. It was just my spirit and my instinct and my heart just following this dream. Right? And adapting. I have to learn this. I have to this. But then at the same time I saw a lot of great things in America. You know, like you can be you. Oh, yeah, you could be you. It's great. This is a good philosophy. The Stoics is a great philosophy, right? Um and then your actions, okay? Just walk, shoulders up, head high. Breathe. [snorts] Walk. And that's probably body language, you know, also exudes what you're thinking and what you're feeling. >> [clears throat] >> And because I'm with dogs all day, I just keep that energy. 24/7. It's beautiful. >> The um as a practical tangent, the thing about just shoulders back and and walk, I think it's funny to see when people try this. They're like like I'm going to be the pack leader. That doesn't work. [clears throat] And I'll tell you, it really doesn't work with a bulldog mastiff. >> No. You can't fake. >> If you get frustrated with them, they feel it and they pull back. It's wild. They just can feel it. Like if you're frustrated, let's go. >> Mhm. >> It's like, no. I'll sometimes give a little bit of a stern I have one little command that I occasionally use. I keep its potency. But if Costello or in this case Strummer is really being stubborn just for stubborn's sake, >> Mhm. >> I'll do tsk. And that's it. >> Yes. That's all it takes. >> But if I do that more than three times on a walk, it loses its potency. >> Correct. >> It's just my way of saying like, "No." It's It's just a no. But I don't say no. And if I were to >> Yeah. And if I were to And I'm realizing as I say this, that little is probably more of a reminder to myself as much as it's a reminder to him. >> to both. >> Yeah. I'm just kind of trying to create this thing like, "No. We're going I lead this walk. We're You need this walk. I need this walk. We're doing this walk." And he just >> Yeah. >> he goes. Now, it's a little bit tougher when my girlfriend walks him, he tests her more. So, can we talk about that when a dog is in a very respectful with one person, obeys the boundaries, but then to other people they're acting out. How should that be remedied? If the three of us walk together, for instance, he'll do whatever she she wants. With me, he does whatever I decide. Okay? >> But sometimes with her she'll say, "He was great." And now he was really difficult. How does one facilitate that? >> that the first thing women have to realize is how much they are in their emotions and how much they think about things. Right? So, you know, the fact that we go into the silence and the calmness and just we follow through is is That's the spirit, the instinct, and the mind. And that's what That's what's walking the dog. But in my experience, women go into the emotional uh uh um vibration. And then there's a Costello, vamos, and they begin to have a intellectual conversation. So, the dog knows that the human is only using half of who they are, which are the heart and the mind. Right? >> [clears throat] >> And so, it's very important for women to remember that spirit is a powerful thing. And so, how am I going to practice silence? And it's instinct is a powerful thing. How am I going to practice instinct breath? You're calm inside. Right? And you just want to go from point A to point B. Very simple, very practical. You're not negotiating. You're not looking at anything else, you're not distracted. You just going, you know, for the task. And then the dog just follows the silence, the calmness, and the confidence. It's when the human doesn't use that vibration that the dog has an option to get distracted, to do other things, to go away from the routine of off from the structure, from whatever you want to you want to do. But at the same time, the same woman can ride a horse. And in order to ride a horse, she have to be quiet, calm, confident. >> Oh, yeah. And my my first girlfriend was a She had horses at home. >> Yeah. >> They had a stable below their their home. They actually weren't that wealthy, but her dad actually had like a not even a junior high school education. He came over from Greece. He became a taxi driver. And he was going to give his daughters this life. And they had this horse. And it was incredible to see her cuz she's very very quiet person actually, very artistic. >> And but with her horse, and he was a wild one. He was gelded late. And so it was a whole thing. >> Um >> Um and but her in the presence of that horse, like she just understood cuz he was dangerous. He was actually a dangerous animal. >> And a totally different side of her came out. And I I said it was the first time I realized I was like I was I mean I was a teenager, right? But I was like, wow, like she has this immense power. It's not like the kind of power that we think about. Of course, women have power and you know, all this, but it was a completely different landscape. And I was like, whoa. I I mean, first of all, I can't do that. I had to learn to be around him. >> Correct. >> But just the the level of calm and confidence uh to clean a horse. Like you you know, you know, a horse can kill you, right? But if you walk around going, "Oh my gosh, this horse can kill me." It does not go well. >> But exactly the way you know, so what we have to remember is is the human part before the gender, right? So just go back to your human. Can a man and a woman ride a horse? Yeah. Why? Because they're using the same energy and the same philosophy and the same actions. So I said, "Because it's a man or a woman? No, no, it's because they're using the same energy for So, it's a human thing. >> Mhm. >> Right? Not a gender thing. >> Mhm. >> Right? So, yeah, I I invite, you know, my my uh female clients to don't forget you also have this calm confident inside of you that your dog needs. >> Mhm. >> Right? Craves. And especially in Europe because most of the time people call me cuz the dog is in a fight state. Right? So, most of my cases are aggression. And so, in your case you have no choice. >> Mhm. >> You [clears throat] have to lead the pack. And the only way you can lead the pack is with calm confidence. You love the pack with love and joy. So, you already know how to do that. Right? You have to get You have to tap into what people call masculine energy. Right? That's so Can a Can a Can a woman ride a horse? Yes, she has to be in this energy to do it. >> Mhm. >> You see it? She has to So, she They just have to learn to recognize, okay, I'm not changing me. I'm just using everything about me. >> Mhm. >> Right? It's like a man Can a man use the feminine side? Yes, you can, of course, you have it. Right? Is your love joy. And your masculine is your calm confident. Silence is for everybody. It's your patience. Right? So, silence is before calm confident or love joy. And this is what they call feminine and this is what they call masculine. Right? So, it's I would However you want to call it, just be the whole human. Use your spirit, use your instinct, use your heart, use your mind. Trust, respect, love, and then do whatever your mind wants to do. It has nothing to do with women or a man. >> Mhm. >> But if we divide and we see each other different or say, "No, it's because I'm a woman I have to be emotional." Yes, you can be emotional at the right time. Just like a man can be emotional at the right time. Nobody's saying not to be loving. What we're saying is how to use this energy for good where you reward good behavior on humans and good behavior on dogs with the energy of love. Right? If the energy of love uh can change bad, there would be no bad men on in the world. Right? Cuz moms normally give you love. But love doesn't change the bad energy. It's the calm confidence that change the bad energy. The >> idea that, you know, society is broken, humans are broken. I mean, there are a lot of problems in the world right now. Purposely, by the way. Tell me more. >> If we get the wrong information, we're going to be no connection, communication, relationship. So, how can we become powerful? Right? Cuz when we unite, and then we become powerful, the pack unites. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> But if the pack is separated, the pack fights, flight, and avoid each other. Right? So, purposely, we get the wrong information. That's why my goal is to give people the right information. If you have low money, middle class, rich, it really doesn't matter. We should all know the same thing about dogs. We should all know the same thing about God. We should all know the same thing about Earth. All of us. It has nothing to do with what position in the pack you are, economically speaking. >> Mhm. >> See it? So, what what what does that world look like? Well, that world look like like all humans around the world, regardless of the economical position, they're all going to have an amazing relationship with dogs. How? Because they're all have the same information. That's it. >> I I love that. I mean, I feel like we're we're drifting further and further away from ourselves as as a species. And what I'm hearing is that looking at our interactions with this other species, dogs, and looking at our practicing our ability to get outside ourselves. >> Yeah. >> And tapping into other aspects of ourselves, like the need for calm confidence when we just want to be loving. That's really about wanting to be loved. >> Yeah. >> You know, the person coming home is not It's not that the dog needs their love. They can hear, oh, you know, actually, the dog needs calm confidence. But >> I translate it as no, that this person just feels so tired at the end of the day. >> Yeah. >> What they need is something that just adores them. >> Yeah. >> You know, and I the whole process of raising Costello was one of reading your book. Really, this is this is why you're here. I mean, cuz I See that saw and experienced so much value from your teaching. And then realizing that if I really want to get what I want, >> Yeah. >> it means building the relationship means not doing this thing in the moment. I'm thinking about the whole relationship. Safety first, is right. And so, it's this kind of counterintuitive thing of needing to go against self in the moment to create the sort of picture where you get so much more and everybody wins. There is a version of everybody, including the dogs, wins. But, it requires a level of self-discipline, awareness, calmness, breathing that I think many people and certainly in that time I felt like a just so much constant pressure to do to do. So, there's a certain amount of slowing down and self-awareness that's required for everything that you're describing. What is your practice for that on a daily base? I mean, you're a master now, right? You're a virtuoso at this. But, for the I would say there's unskilled, skilled, master, and virtuosity. You're up at >> Back of the back of the back of the back of >> But, so for somebody who's trying to move from unskilled to skill in the domain of like slowing down, thinking about what the priority in this interaction is, getting all that working while life is happening in real time. >> Lots happening and it's coming through the phone and this and that, schedules. >> How do you recommend, young or old, that people start to cultivate this awareness and this >> I think the quicker we become aware what is life about, right? Cuz we all going to die. And so, what what what is life about? And life is about life, right? Life is to be happy, to be healthy, to be loving, and to be smart. That's life. And then it's time. how do you structure, how do you manage time, right? And and uh and then is memories, that's all you take. Once you realize those three things, I I think you're going to be able to focus and and experience life um the way animals do, right? Cuz they're very grateful of life, they structure time very wisely. And then by the time they die, they only take good memories. Right? Cuz that's all you take, good memories. And so the quicker we surrender to that concept, uh the quicker we are going to focus in what's what's valuable, right? And and what and things that we can definitely practice that this this concept of love, right? And so that to me is be grateful of life every day, be thankful of life every day, you know, learn with your mind to learn to achieve, give it away. It's very important to be of service and make other humans, you know, or animals, you know, achieve what you just achieve. And of course, you know, the energy of love to love those three things about it, right? Your spirit, your instinct, and your mind. Learn to love that about you cuz that's who you are. So who is Cesar Millan? Cesar Millan is a spirit, he's an instinct, he's a heart, and he's a mind. Right? So and then man, I value that so much. And and that once I value that, it's easy to love what you value. You see it? It's easy to love what you value. And so once you realize this this natural, simple, profound self, you want to give it away. I give it away to dogs. And because I do that, I get to rehabilitate dogs that people unconsciously have confused. See it? Cuz dogs in America, you know, dogs in their country are skinny, but they don't have psychological problems. Dogs in America are chunky and I get to have a TV show. So dogs in America should be the happiest, healthiest, loving, smartest dog on Earth cuz that dogs in America have rights. You understand that concept? But why would a guy from Mexico comes to America and National Geographic gives him a TV show? Because America created fight, flight, avoidance unconsciously. Even though America loves dogs more than any other country I've ever seen in my life. Dogs have birthday parties in America. Dogs have Christmas presents in America. Dogs get married in America. Dogs get married? That's you know, taking the humanization to another level, but that's that's just shows you, you know, the the the creativity of human. But not because a dog has all this money, fame, and power, the dog is happy. >> [clears throat] >> My goal is is for people to understand that, you know, happiness and health and and and having a good heart and having a a good creative mind shouldn't take too much. Right? It's just it's just about being grateful. Right? It's just about being thankful. It's about loving those two things. And then make sure that your mind learn, achieve, gives it away, or learn to turn it off. So, don't use your mind to think bad things. >> What's your process for turning off your mind? This is a very common challenge for people. >> I think the easiest way for people to experience because they have to see it, right? You can tell people but if they don't see it inside, they they're never going to see understand what you mean. So, what what I help people with is I put them in the cold plunge. Right? And so, once they go through the fight, flight, avoidance, they want to see and they get to the calm surrender. What are you thinking? I'm thinking nothing. That's exactly what what what a clear mind looks like. Right? So, through that cold plunge experience, the human gets to understand breath, patience, you know, confidence, and not to think anything because you're doing this with your spirit and your instinct and your heart. This is your mind just have to wait for the the three minutes. That's [clears throat] it. Without anticipation, so there's just nothing there. Right? And then, of course, the cold doesn't let you think. Right? But the only thing you can do is breathe and wait. And so, then once they see it, okay, that is the meaning of not having nothing in your mind. Right? So, I'm making them experience it versus if I just tell them, they can't picture it. >> As somebody who's a real believer, as you probably know, in deliberate cold exposure, I mean, I think it's it's uh people it's zero cost. I mean, you you use a cold shower, you know, it saves on the water bill. So, this isn't like having to run out and buy something. What it tells me because of the cold plunge immediately, reliably releases adrenaline, which then wakes up the brain as well. >> That's your instinct. >> Shuts down the forebrain. The very fascinating um that you're saying this because the forebrain is strategy, etc. But in the first 20 or 30 seconds of deliberate cold exposure, the prefrontal cortex, which controls all the top-down inhibition of impulse, is it's not shut off, but it is greatly diminished. You can't strategize well. You're just thinking out, you know? So, you're saying people need to get past the point where they're trying to uh suppress impulse, but they need to experience adrenaline. >> That's right. >> Got it. >> Yeah. >> That's right. >> And then they get to peace. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> And that's the energy to bring >> Yeah. >> to your interaction [clears throat] with your dog. >> Yes. >> And ideally to your spouse and your kids, too. >> Everywhere. Everywhere. So, a human after a cold plunge brings that energy away. You don't have to talk. Everybody knows your energy feels really good. All because you went to Mother Nature. Right? That was Mother Nature, cold. Right? It's water, cold. That's Mother Nature. Right? So, imagine uh you bring that energy to your to to meeting a dog, to walking with a dog, to feeding a dog. That's it. That's all I want people to experience cuz everybody wants to They want to do that. Right? Or they want to do I'm not aware how I feel. I just want to give affection. You see it? So that So that that is good for the human, not necessarily good for everybody else cuz that human is spreading that energy. So my goal is for people to spread, you know, silence, calmness, confidence, love, joy because that's exactly how you feel after a cold plunge. Exactly in 3 minutes. You get into that state. You have to learn to love, you know, the the process of I'm going to fight flight avoidance. But I'm not going to listen to that part of me. I'm going to listen to my calm surrender. I'm going to listen to my calm confidence. And then once I finish, I'm going to listen to my happy-go-lucky. And that's all you want. That's it. Those three state of minds are super powerful. >> You know, I've thought a lot about deliberate cold exposure, adrenaline, norepinephrine. You get this long arc of dopamine that lasts hours and hours and hours afterwards. And then that my critics will say, "Well, it's just dopamine in the body, not in the brain." Actually, new findings show it's dopamine in your brain and body. Long arc of very few things produce this thing of long-lasting dopamine. Drugs will spike and drop. >> Right. Well, good relationship with a dog is long-lasting dopamine. You know, a well-balanced dog is a long-lasting whatever you want, you know? I hope you want the four worlds, your spirit, your instinct, your heart, and your mind, all of them by walking. Just walk with the dog for a long period of time, then you do your play explore. That's the best medicine any human can can get. >> It's the the amount of peace that I still get from my relationship with Costello. I mean, he's passed now, but he's still >> Yeah, everywhere even his spirit >> uh is I mean, I would say it's very natural. >> It's where I It makes me well up, you know, not out of sadness. It's like I can feel the the love of the relationship. Right? You know, I had to ask an an on my list and I'm going to ask this is the right time, I believe. Um So, as Costello got to 11 years old. It's pretty old for a bulldog. That's right. He had a some sort of spinal stroke. He couldn't walk. He was falling over. I was like distraught. How can I get this fixed? And at some point I realized, you know, when people say like they'll let you know. >> Yes. >> I had a a feeling and then a thought and it went something like this. I made a contract with him to take care of him. >> Yeah. >> And in the contract of being a really good dog owner, but like mostly in the contract of the relationship, I owed him a a peaceful exit. Hated going to the vet, so I got someone to come to the house and do this thing. Most people they hate the concept of death, especially in family members or a dog. And I think it would have been useful to me to understand the day I got him that someday this is going to end. >> Yeah. >> And I think like this thing about honoring death is a real thing >> Mhm. >> uh is so important. Because that last two weeks was a real struggle between me and myself. My desire to just keep it going and I realized I was being selfish. It was about me. And of course, I gave him a the best passage I I could. And people in my life who knew me and knew my relationship to him, they said I I actually can't believe you did it. I'm surprised you were able to. But the moment I realized like this is the final line >> Mhm. >> in being in the contract of being a really good dog owner, I was like, of course I have to do this. >> Yeah. >> So, no one likes this topic, but given where you're from, what is your relationship to the concept of death as it relates to to dogs? And the question is very specific here. Do People say they know, they'll let you know. >> Yeah. >> The question I want to know is is it okay to show your dog sadness or does it make the dog that's dying more anxious? >> With my kids, you know, I have two kids and you know, obviously we have a pack of dogs. They have experienced dogs passing. We always make a celebration. I always bring them to their their favorite place. So I definitely bring more of the energy of happiness and I I ask my kids if you're going to cry or whatever, just do it away from them. Otherwise, you hold them. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> Right? So I don't I want them to go back. That's why it's so good to think to believe in God because they're going back to the source. So they're way better with him than they're they're with, you know, here. I did my homework right too, also. So I feel really good that I gave the best life >> Mhm. >> uh for that particular dog, right? Um and so when it's time to go, they tell you. They they tell you. They can, you know, ask many many signs. But at the same time as, you know, when is the day, is everybody happy? Everybody's happy. We're going to we're going to dance. We're going to celebrate. We're going to uh you know, it's a ritual. You can make a sad ritual or you can make a happy ritual. You see, it's time for him to depart. It's time to go. So when I die, I want everybody to be happy. I don't want no sadness. I Listen, my life is beyond what I thought. Right? So I I give that same life to a dog. Same. It's I'm very dedicated human. Seven days a week uh even if I don't feel good, it doesn't matter. I go and walk that pack. I'm very committed. Right? It's all about honor. It's all about respect. It's That's my way of showing my heart and in my mind, I don't have one day that I I did wrong by them. So when it's time for them to go, it's time for them to go, but we're going to make happy about it cuz they're going back to God. That's how I see it. And you know, as you said as you as you're talking about, the spirit never dies. >> Mhm. >> You know, the spirit never dies and it's an opening for me to help another soul and another soul cuz that's what that's why I'm here, right? I'm here on Earth to my time can be used wisely to keep helping. And that's what I find, you know, my inspiration, motivation. That's it. >> Beautiful. Not what I expected and I'm so pleasantly surprised. I challenges me to even say it cuz he's still so new, but when Strummer dies, the last 24 hours of his life will be a celebration with him. >> Yeah, celebration. >> All right. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> Happy spirit, you know what I'm saying? Laugh, dance, you know, just happiness. Cuz they once you start going like this, they don't they they they get worried. You know, and then the spirit lingers. You don't want to You just want it to go, you know, and for them to give you direction, protection. This, you know, I have a big pack on heaven. >> [laughter] >> You definitely have a big pack waiting for you. >> When I go home, you know, I'm going to I'm going to have the, you know, how many dogs I have I saved my life. So, eat Yeah, I'm going home. >> I love it. >> You know, Earth is a beautiful home, but it's temporary. >> Yeah. Well, I believe this, too. >> Yeah, it's temporary. >> I've talked a bit about my faith. I just now is not the time, but I'm you know, my audience knows I'm very very much in in agreement that, you know, this is this is an amazing phase of us, but it's not the only phase. And so, if people are feeling uh sad, like, you know, the number of people I know who turn to their dog for emotional support or a Yes. around a loss of a loved one or breakup or loss of a job or just the world, whatever. >> Yeah. >> What is your stance on that? >> It's bad because they're passing that energy to the dog that doesn't know what happened. But, I mean, obviously, they're going to help you absorb the energy, but after you did that, just take him to the beach so he can let go to the energy. Same thing when you bring a dog to a hospital, right? The and the therapy dogs. They go to hospitals, you know, kids with cancer, da da da da da da, depressed people, blah blah blah. That dog absorbs that energy. Okay? Just like you will and absorb people's energy. Your job is to go and let it go. So, every time you give bad energy, you know, help people or help dogs to get rid of that energy that is not healthy for them. Yeah. Utilize it, you know, it's it's available. Uh but again, you can also go and take a cold plunge before you hug the dog. And that way you kill that energy. You know, kill that energy. Just kill it. And only give good energy to your family. Give good energy to your home. It's discipline. It's easier just to go and throw that negative energy that you just grabbed. It's easier. But then you spread the whole thing everywhere. >> Oh man, I saw in so many laboratories where the the boss, you know, brilliant scientist, I'm thinking of one in particular, and they would do this like what I would call trickle-down anxiety. They'd be stressing, they'd walk through the lab stressing out. Graduate school is already hard, especially in the if I may, in the sciences. >> Yeah. >> Very very hard. Very competitive. Postdoc is even more uncertain. Like you don't you don't get a degree at the end. You're investing 5 years of your life. You know, and for to walk around, the boss walking around like making people anxious. >> Yeah. >> Terrible. The other thing that was terrible was walking around making people feel overly confident. People would do that, too. So, everything you're saying, it's like you could see it in these very hierarchical human relationships. >> But I think with dogs we we're so what I I'm just going to say it. I feel like we are so selfish >> Yeah. >> as a species. Like that these animals are here for us and just for us. To give me love when I get home, to console me when I'm sad, to give me all the things I want. >> Yeah. >> That I would be blind to the the basic needs of that animal. It's It's really is. It's as selfish, in my opinion, as saying, "Oh, these are animals that we work on, that just serve our purposes to advance our careers or scientific understanding." And again, there's there's for that, but we have to be incredibly nuanced about where that's appropriate and where it's inappropriate. >> It's just a selfishness. >> The selfish part and the unselfish part. So, what I'm saying is don't forget, you know, to be at service before somebody's at service to you. Right? So, the [clears throat] spirit instinct it love to be at service. And then the the the love and and the mind loves to be served. So, this is your selfish part of it and this is your unselfish part of it. You see it? So, you're here to serve God and you're here to serve Earth. All right? So, you don't forget that. Right? To be at service. Cuz they skip it. So, once you once you go directly to the heart and the mind, this is what I want. I want my dog to love me ra-da-da. Okay, fine. You just skipped spirit and instinct. Right? Cuz the spirit will never bring bad energy to the heart. And ins- instinct will never bring bad energy to the mind. You see? So, I So, if you remember that you are four things and and this is what you want to give to your dog, to yourself, to your house, to your family, and then you're going to be focusing on on making sure that you snap out of it whatever like you do hug yourself to snap out of it, right? >> [clears throat] >> And then and then you go bring, you know, patience, calmness, confidence, love. Then you go hug the dog. So, you also have to learn to snap yourself out of it from whatever energy you went and attracted. It's like stepping on poop. You got to remove your your shoe before you walk into the house. Otherwise, you bring that scent. So, energy is the same way. It's like poop on your feet. Bad energy is the same. You're going to spread all over the house. Your plants are going to die. You know, your dogs are going to be like, "Okay, this energy is is not good, so we Right? And then your family will will get it. So, you you enter in you're going to enter into this dark energy. >> These days on social media, there's so much I'm realizing about the low-level um stuff. Like, you should never hug a dog. You should hug a dog. You should never pick up your dog off the ground. It's okay to pick up Your dog should never be in your bed. Your dog should be in your bed. You see all these contradictions? You see the same thing in the health space. Like, you should cold plunge. You shouldn't cold plunge. You should sauna. You should like it it and it comes down to a basic fact, which is that it's not about the practice, it's the it's the principle behind it, the spirit behind it, the energy behind it. So, I was tempted to ask you like, is it bad to pick up with the dog? Actually, Strummer loves being held. Costello hated it. Strummer he's hap- he's basically happiest just being carried around. But, I know you don't I don't carry around too much. But, it's fine. He just drapes. He's so happy that way. He He wishes he could go through the world that way, frankly. It's not about carry or don't carry. >> No. >> It's about what is your energy, why are you doing this? Is it for you? Is it for them? What's Okay. >> And if the dog feels, because you know, you can ask a groomer or a vet, they have to carry that dog. But, they can't carry a fight-flight avoidance. >> Right. >> They can only carry a happy-go-lucky one or a calm-surrender one. >> Mhm. >> Those are So, it's nothing wrong hugging a dog. It's nothing wrong putting a dog on the bed. It's nothing wrong It's It's what state of mind the dog was in when you did this is more important. >> Mhm. >> Right? Because what about if a dog is in a is in a flight state and you want to carry him? He's going to feel trapped. And then the dog is going to bite or is going to pee or is going to scream. Right? So, you could have prevent that just by not focusing on what you wanted to do. Is Is the dog that you want to do that in a calm-surrender state? >> Mhm. >> Right? Can the dogs stay on the bed? There's nothing wrong, you know, sharing your house with the dog. It's Think about invading versus inviting. >> Mhm. >> Okay? So, when the dog goes on his own, >> Mhm. >> he's inva- invading. >> Mhm. >> When [clears throat] the dog is waiting and you tell him to come over and you tell him where to go. That's being invited. So, that mind is going to become surrender. The other one is going to get territorial. You know how many times I have rehabilitated dogs who claim people's bed? Where the husband can't come near the bed because the wife and the dog were already there. I I done a rehabilitation where the husband sleep in the living room for 3 years because she wanted the dogs to stay on the bed. And when every time they the guy came into the into the bedroom uh the dogs will after him. >> I'm sure everyone is thinking, "What did he do wrong?" This is You know, we're living in this time now where there's this projection of like, "Well, he must have done something wrong." I don't I can also imagine the situation you just described where no one did anything wrong except give the dog too much power. >> Correct. >> That there's actually Let's assume there's no problem between the couple. She would like the husband in the bed. Perhaps. But the But the dog is somehow picking up on something. >> Yeah, no no, she said it clearly to me, "I just don't want him on the bed." >> The husband? >> Uh-huh. >> Okay. So, there the dog is basically taking advantage of the owner's spot. >> listen, let's say you guys want to spend 20 minutes on the bed. Let me show you how to do it." >> Mhm. >> And so, that's what I I taught I taught the dogs just to wait. >> Wow. >> Right? But she needed to make sure that uh she agrees with the agreement, commitment, follow through, right? Nothing can happen without agreement. So, she needs to be in 100% agreement, otherwise the dog will not do it. >> They really can sense >> Yeah. >> any kind of small fraction of energy. >> goes down, they're going to take over. Your energy goes up, they're going to move away. >> Mhm. >> Right? Your energy have to be bigger for you to create a follow. >> Mhm. >> If your energy [clears throat] goes down, you follow them. Simple as that. Simple as that. You just You just have to remember energy. Right? And then if you want to lead, this is the end animals. You can lead humans lying to them all day long. But with animals you can't. You have to bring the perfect energy, the right energy, an energy that belongs to all of us, right? Your patient energy, your calm energy, your confident energy, your love energy. We all have that inside of us, right? God gave us all the same thing. That's up to you but do you go from the back of the pack to the front of the pack? That's up to you, right? But you have patience, calmness, confidence, love, joy cuz that's how you going to deal with life. Right? So with animals it's a perfect way to maintain this, you know, within yourself. Mhm. Right? [clears throat] It's like a gym, going to the gym everyday, right? But it's just the gym is mother nature, the beach, you know, the streets, whatever. You just walking around with dogs in a natural simple profound way. And that's it. Then you go to work. So imagine if people develop this beautiful habit. Okay, I'm going to do what Caesar says, you know, silence, calmness, confidence, love, joy for 30, 40 minutes and then I'm going to feel the silence, the calmness. Then I go to work. Right? And when I come back no touching, no talking, no eye contacts and then my dog back in her and then I can do the greeting. Then I go out for another walk, right? And then you can do the play and explore. No bad behavior would happen in your house with that simple formula. I love it. I I hope that people start to think about their dog and getting a dog as more of a gym as opposed to I'm going to we're going to get a fur baby. I have a friend I have to be very careful here. This is truly not about my household but I have a friend she's married they're going through some struggles. They have two kids and she told me the other day they never had a dog. She's going to get two husky puppies and I said do me a favor, just get one. Yeah. In six months if you but they want each other this and that and the the kids are young there's no way and I I'm and I know the struggles that they're having and it's a they're they're both overworked, they're under-resourced. So, this is and they love each other very much, but this is like a really hard situation. >> Right. >> And I'm thinking to myself, I want to be supportive. And I said, "Do not get a puppy now. And if you do, do not get two puppies. This is like insanity. Like you you like you want to like it could break your family." Or and she said, "Well, I promised the kids I >> your heart because you have to get rid of the dogs. >> So, this she said, "My It was a story. It's very interesting. She said in when I was growing up my parents would make these promises and they wouldn't do it and I told and it broke my heart and I told my kids they could each get one." And I said, I said, "Well, you have no idea the kind of heartbreak they're going to experience when you have to give them both back because one is biting the kid or one is you know, like and she's like, "Oh, I wouldn't want that." And I was thinking to myself, "And you're already under-resourced." >> Yeah. >> I share this because I'm realizing throughout today's conversation our concept of dogs and what they owe us is completely backwards. She's a very good person. >> Yeah. >> I won't state her profession for states of but she's in a a profession of intense service all day long. And has I've known her for more than two decades. But the concept is these puppies are going to come here and rescue us. >> Yeah. >> This is like fulfill >> fulfill >> the dream that I had. Yeah, right? Uh with prior to you know, with my parents. >> More love. Just more love can't be bad. More love can't be bad. >> Yeah. And they're huskies, right? So, this is a breed that love to migrate longer than any other breed in the world. Right? So, walking is one thing. Migration is another. This is why I got a bulldog. >> You see it? >> That's why I got a bulldog. Bulldog breed. I actually didn't get a purebred bulldog because I they have issues. >> have issues. >> But yeah, a dog that needs to migrate, how much walking do they need per day ideally? >> especially a pack. So, the bigger the pack, the longer the walk. >> I know. They they both work such crazy hours. >> let her know, "Hey, begin with a fostering. So, that way they get get know themselves as a family. Is everybody in agreement? Does everybody understand what the rules, boundaries, and limitations are? Does everybody understand what the responsibilities are? Can Can we all see our good habits and our bad habits? You know, do we all follow through? So, with a foster dog, if you're not adopting and you're just temporarily keeping him in the house, so the dog gets, you know, a a home and and a family. It doesn't necessarily have to stay in the house, but the human gets to learn about themselves before they enter into the purchase or the adoption. Right? So, to have two puppies a huskies, you got to have to purchase them. Right? And so, she's going to go into make a purchase and then eventually she realized, we were not ready as a family. In my mind, I was ready. But in the whole pack, we're not ready. Right? And And the puppyhood is That's from birth to 8 months. So, in a matter of 6 months, you have a dog that is this big who's an adult now. Right? Now, you got to think about spay neuter. Cuz if you don't, then you deal with the the you know, the hormones and then they can start fighting with each other. >> What's your take on spay neuter? >> Well, in America it's necessary in because dogs are not going to mate and so uh and they spend a lot of time indoor. >> So, I neutered Costello. >> Yeah. >> Uh I put him on testosterone therapy his final 2 years. Um vets that I knew said, we would love to be able to do that more, but there are reasons we don't. With uh Strummer, I thought keep him intact. >> Yeah. >> Then people say, oh, but then they're going to mate with all the dogs in the neighborhood. You can also give a dog a vasectomy. It's very easy procedure. It's funny we don't do that. I learned that in Australia it's illegal to not neuter your dog. In Scandinavia, it's illegal to neuter your dog. >> right. >> What in the world is best? >> Well, it depends on the on the on the place, right? Because in America, without a doubt, since the dogs don't go out as often, they they rely on the human. Dogs in other countries, they're not neutered, but they're not looking for trouble. They're not, you know, they're they may when the female gets in heat. Otherwise, they're busy looking for food and water. So, you know, as long as you use your energy for to for survival purposes, you're not going to develop frustration. So, so what happens, you know, when a dog is intact and they don't get to walk enough and they don't get to be challenged enough and then it all goes into the arouse and they're the whole day they're excited. And then people go, "Oh, baby." The thing comes out, right? And then and then the dog gets excited. How many I don't know if you've ever seen it, but I've seen it a lot. Dogs humping their owners or dogs humping furniture in the house. I mean, Costello tried to hump me once. Yeah. It never happened again. I I just made it I just made it very clear that was not okay and I used isolation. I just put him back in the thing. I left, came back. Yeah. I sent him the message mentally, energetically, that's never happening again. It was very stern. It has to be clear day one. So, that happens in day one, but a lot of times people go, "No, no, no." They they more celebrate that, right? And so, they end up in a celebration and and end up funny, but the dog end up becoming more and more aroused about the humans. So, now he's mounting, which as you know is is a sexual and is dominance, you know, behavior [clears throat] towards the human. So, in America, definitely a dog needs to be neutered more more often. Plus, we have an overpopulation. You know, millions of dogs die every year because there's an overpopulation problem and that's taxpayer money who pays for for the killing of dogs. So, it's important that we regulate Uh through This is the only way you can regulate that. >> I see these crazy things on Instagram. Someone says, "You When you pet your dog, it should be slow. No, when you pet your dog, you should rub." I'm guessing doesn't matter. It's the energy behind it. >> Yeah. I mean, you obviously don't want to push against the fur, but somebody was saying, you know, all the all people are like petting their dog too fast. They don't like that. Is this just people making stuff up? >> Look, if if a dog is doing agility and a dog is like excited cuz he's doing agility, pet him hard. Pet him fast cuz you want him like that. But if you want the dog to be in a restaurant, pet him soft. So, it's depending on what you want the mind to feel. You see what I mean? You don't want to pet fast in a restaurant, you know, and slow in agility. So, it's it's it's it's not the action. It's what are you petting? >> Makes total sense. Makes total sense. I mean, a soft stroking calm, you know, a calm dog. >> Restaurant means calm. >> Mhm. >> Agility means cover it. >> Good job. Yeah. >> for it, right? It's like what FIFA is doing right now. All the Everybody's excited. Nobody's like [clears throat] >> [laughter] >> You see this? >> With um barking, uh I learned from your book like if Costel or when he was a puppy, he he could let it out. >> Yeah. >> And the temptation is to say, "No." But why would you shout back to a dog that's vocalizing? So, I would just walk away. And then when he was quiet, I'd come back. >> There you go. >> And then pretty soon he realized nobody wants to be around a barking dog. And somehow he knew instinctually that if there was a threat or someone you know, he sensed a threat, a bark, he only would bark once. He had this I mean, he had this like I mean, man, his he was a beautiful specimen, I have to say. He was just so beautiful, but his barks were like a bass drum. Mhm. But it was one. >> Mhm. >> And then we just But he would never just sit there and bark. I think a lot of people their dog barks and they talk to their dog. So, presumably >> Right. >> the dog is barking because that's what gets them some sort of feedback attention. >> That's right. Or or the dog is also his only way to drain energy. >> Mhm. >> Right? Well, like when my dog obsessively bark, how often do you walk? Uh once a week, twice a week or whatever. So, so the barking becomes a way of draining energy. >> Mhm. >> Or like destroying your house, you know, a destructive behavior. Why would a dog destroy where he sleep? Well, because he doesn't do much with his body and his mind. So, he has to drain that energy and that's what we call destructive behavior. But, people don't understand that we are not we're in a way practicing destructive behavior by not doing what we supposed to be doing, which is walking the dog every single day. At the moment they wake up in the morning, they stretch and the second thing they want to do is walk. >> Should you wait for your dog to get up? What if you have to go to work? Should you force your dog to wake up and walk? >> I have certainly would. They're They're daytime animals. So, the biology is definitely as soon as the sun comes up, they they should go, you know, they [clears throat] should go. >> This is what we do with Strummer, even though bulldog I mean they'll sleep till 10:00 a.m., but um we we have to work. So, we we take him out. >> Take care of it. It's easier. It's actually better, right? Cuz he's like, "Oh, I got to" but then you drain the energy quicker. Yeah, it's it's way better cuz you want them to stay waiting for you in a resting state. So, it's five body motions the animals do. They stretch as soon as they wake up, right? Walk, run, rest, sleep. So, a lot of times when you don't walk the dog or run the dog and you want the dog to wait for you, he can't go into a resting state. >> Mhm. >> You see it? So, it's very important that we follow the five body motions cuz every single animal as soon as they wake up, they stretch. The bird flies, >> Mhm. >> right? And the the dog walks and and and the rest of the animals the water animals they swim, right? So, there is a um a a formula that they have. So, we want them to wait for us, we have to leave them in a resting state. >> Mhm. >> And they just [clears throat] that's the meaning of waiting state. That's it. But but they can't wait or rest if the body and the mind has not been drained. And I another another reason why the walk is so important. Cuz the walk is the only activity from play and explore that gives them calm surrender. Play and explore gives them an excited energy. >> Do you recommend walking them on the same path, novel path, um giving them new >> In the beginning, yes. Then the the the same path is important to create, you know, trust to the environment. But once they they they know it very well, you have to change it. >> Mhm. >> Yeah, and and you don't have to change like even going on a different direction. You can just come outside and put food in the floor and tempt the dog to want to smell and correct them. So that creates a challenge. >> Mhm. >> You see it? So you learn to ignore food in the floor. And you see it? So you start creating your own Universal Studios. So your whole house or your whole environment becomes your own dog psychology center where you're challenging your dog, you know, to to not get bored. Cuz they learn a pattern really fast and once they learn it, there is no growth. So then then the mind gets also frustrated, bored, or confused because there's no growth. >> I love it. I trained Strummer to run on the treadmill. >> Yeah. >> For little rewards here and there, intermittent reinforcement. And he loves it. He runs now. He jumps on. He gets on that thing. >> Yeah. >> Uh it never occurred to me to do this, but I realized that we're in California, it doesn't rain too often, but even when it rains, I want to have something where I can >> All right. >> get his energy out. If it there's fires again, I don't want to be outside cuz anyway. Um so glad to hear that the treadmill is is okay. >> You know, the first treadmill I saw, remember the show The Jetsons? >> Yeah. >> With Astro Jetson? >> Yeah. >> That was the first dog I ever seen on the treadmill. And I was a kid. Then I come to America and I see a whole bunch of treadmills, you know, and in people's garage. And I say, "Do you ever put your dog in the treadmill?" They said, "No. Can you put a dog in the treadmill?" I learned that by watching The Jetsons. >> Oh, very cool. >> Then I came and practice it in America cuz people just had the treadmill but they were not using it. >> Wow. >> You know? So, that's when I start putting dogs on the treadmill. Ba ba ba ba ba and people were just fascinated. But I said, "Listen, this is not for you to stay lazy. >> Right. >> This is just for emergency. >> Mhm. >> Okay? And or for you to challenge the mind and and and you know, and that's it. It but it's not it's not so you don't walk. >> Yeah, I do a walk with him and bring him back and then if he still has a lot of energy and I have to go, I get him going fast on an incline. >> Yep. >> Get him right to his threshold and then play with him a little bit. >> correct. >> And then like we I've been trying to share this thing with him like we this is our thing and now he he loves the treadmill. He we dying to get on the treadmill. >> become more like personal trainers, they will challenge the dogs a lot more like a personal trainer. >> Mhm. >> You see it? So, they will be able to, you know, challenge the mind and challenge the body. Challenge the mind, challenge the body. Da da da da as a personal trainer, right? And but but people don't do it. You know, they don't do these other uh titles. Right? I just want to be a dog lover or the mom of this dog or the father of this dog. Yeah, you can also be a coach. You can also be a religious coach. >> Mhm. >> You know what I mean? Or or a spiritual coach. Uh intellectual coach. I mean, don't forget there is four worlds. There's not just the emotional world. >> Mhm. >> And that's the only one you want to practice cuz that's the easiest one. >> Mhm. >> Right? To love a dog is so easy. You know, to challenge him, you know, uh spiritually and instinctively and and intellectually, that's it requires creativity. >> Yeah, that's a great relationship. >> Yeah, so awesome. Really it's good for you. >> Yeah. >> Cuz if the dog is doing great, that means you did great. So, it's a reflection of you. Right? The dog is a reflection of you, your energy, your philosophy, your actions. So, every time you work out with a dog, you're working out with yourself. It's just in a natural, simple, profound way. >> Mhm. >> That's it, you know, which is about trust, respect, love, safe, peace, love, body, mind, heart. Just simple stuff. Right? And that creates the off-leash. >> Mhm. >> That That [clears throat] is, you know, the ultimate with we should all accomplish. And you shouldn't pay for it. Right? I'm not trying to get my, you know, colleagues, uh, the dog trainers, uh, not to get a jobs, but it's it's a um it's kind of [clears throat] silly that you hire somebody to teach your dog off-leash. You earn that. That's something we have to earn. It's good for us >> Mhm. >> to earn, >> [clears throat] >> you know, that that trust, that respect, that love. It's good. It's It's It's a good exercise. A good workout. That means you use your spirit, your instinct, your heart, your mind every single day of life. That's why that dog behaves that way. See it? They keep you on track. Just to live a natural, simple, profound life. And when you're having a hard time in life, that's where you want to go. To your natural, [clears throat] simple, profound. You know, never let this one go. So, to have a good relationship with a dog is automatically let you have a good relationship with God. They're together. We're the only one that separates them. We're the only one that separates everything to create chaos. We make a lot of things up. >> What I'm hearing today over and over is that you obey the spirit, you obey the instincts, ours and these animals, dogs in this case, and you put that first, then all the other stuff about pet not pet, pet not pet, like all the other stuff falls into place. But it's a moment-to-moment thing. It's a daily thing. There isn't a "Well, I love my dog. It loves me." That That's a That's a story that's partially true, but there's actually, if I'm editorializing a little bit, there's there's actually a fair amount of abuse of the animal in that situation. >> It's very self-serving. >> Yeah. >> There's abuse of the animal. >> Yeah. >> But when we align all those things and we start from spirit, >> Yeah. >> it all kind of falls into place. >> Yeah. >> But we have to be vigilant and we have to basically train ourselves. This is all about training ourselves. >> I train humans, rehabilitate dogs. That's That's my job. I train humans, rehabilitate dogs. You don't have to have a dog to talk to me. Because, you know, learning how to be with a dog is learning how to be in life, period. >> Mhm. >> Right? It's good for you to be a pack member, a good pack member at home. You need to know what is your position and just be contribute to the family. Right? And bring good energy, good philosophy, good action, even if you're in the back of the pack, or the middle of the pack, or the front of the pack. It's not only the front of the pack that has to have good energy. It's it because he's in that position, he has to be the fittest. Right? Fittest not only physically, but spiritually, instinctively, emotionally, and mentally. You know, with the body to to take care of all those four energies. Right? So, otherwise, it doesn't matter what position you are in the pack, bring good energy, good philosophy, good actions. Right? And one way that you can achieve this every single day is having a great relationship with a dog. It just makes you a good human. Everybody wins that way. It's not about training the dog, it's about training the human to be a good human. Right? And then that human is going to have good everything, cuz that's that's what his energy and philosophy and actions are all about. So, imagine if the world is led by good humans. >> Yeah, that's a beautiful image. >> Yeah. >> Well, Cesar, I I'm immensely grateful for you coming here today. Um, you are incredibly knowledgeable, incredibly wise. Your Your energy is tangible from the moment somebody meets you. It's a real thing. I I can say that uh having experienced it in the room. I'm sure people listening are hearing it and feeling it as well. You also have a an incredible relationship to the the spiritual of animals and humans and and a real what I hear is a a wish for humanity and for animals. And uh your relationship to the things that are timeless. >> Yeah. >> The past, the present, what happens next, it's it's really incredible. I said it before, I'll say it again, three different different ways for the multi-generational purpose of it. You're the man. You're also incredibly wise, and you're a virtuoso of bringing together information in practical ways that people can not just learn how to take care of their dog and themselves better, but as you pointed out, be a better human. So >> That's it. >> you're a special one. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Cesar Millan. To learn more about his work, please see the links in the show note caption. If you're learning from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us. In addition, please follow the podcast by clicking the follow button on both Spotify and Apple. 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