Joe Rogan Experience #2531 - Forrest Galante

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. All day, >> my friend. [music] Joe, it's good to see you, man. Bro, it's good to see you. So, I've been sending you stuff cuz like we've been I knew that you were coming on and I sent you that one uh that video of the guy who got a trail cam photo of a black panther. Yep. >> So, is that just a melanistic mountain lion? Like, what is that? >> It's a great question. There's never been a melanistic mountain lion. Nobody's ever seen one ever. Never hit one with a car, never born one captivity, nothing. >> Wa. >> So, mountain lions by definition, pumas, you know, whatever you want to call them. Um, there's never been a black one ever. But every year, I mean, I got a buddy in Florida who swears blind that he's seen a black mountain lion in his backyard. And yet that photo that you sent me, that photo circulates like once every 3 years. It's [ __ ] It's a real photo, but it's a trail cam photo. Oh, it wasn't this one, but >> Well, that's I think that's the first one. And then there's another one with the cat gets like right up to the lens. Yeah, that one. >> So, that photo is a real I want to say jaguar. It's hard to tell, but either jaguar or black leopard. both of which are do become melanistic. >> But there's and you can tell that cuz you can see the spots barely like the rosettes. >> So all these melanistic cats like like jags and leopards and things that do get melanistic, they still have those rosettes under the black coat. Yeah. So not a mountain line. >> Wow. Too bad. >> I know. It's such a bummer. One day if somebody finds one, that'll be like a huge thing scientifically. >> Funny that we want it to be different because just a mountain line itself is amazing. I mean, if they were all black and there was like a tan mountain line, be like, "Somebody saw a tan mountain line." >> 100%. It's like whatever is different and rare is what people just are like, I want that one thing. >> I've always said that about Bigfoot. >> Yeah. Bigfoot is kind of interesting, but not as interesting as an orca. >> 100%. Like, we have gorillas that are cooler than Bigfoots. >> Well, orcas in in particular because they have languages that we can't decipher. Languages, specialized diets, some kind. Do you know I'm sure you know us can't even talk to each other, right? >> Yeah. It's unbelievable. Like it's the same as if you or I went to India or Africa. It's like we kind of communicate. We don't eat the same food. We look different. And yet to us an orca is an orca, >> right? >> Yeah. >> And super smart and huge brains and don't kill people for some strange reason except when they're in captivity. >> That's right. Yeah. Which is so crazy. I did a thing in Baja Mexico maybe 3 years ago where we were just cruising on this little ponga, this little fishing boat, and we saw these orcas go by. And now people seem to be doing it a lot, but at the time it was like nobody had really just tried this. And this was a transient population, which means they primarily eat uh seals and sea lions, not the stingray eaters. And so we're like, "Fuck it. Let's just go." And we like ran the boat up ahead and jumped in. And the orcas came up and the bull never came out. So you know, the bull has a huge fin like he's the biggest like the the dominant protector of the pod. But the cows and their babies came up and the boat like drifted away and me and my buddy Mike and they just circled us like just looking at us with their big eyeballs. >> Wow. >> And it was me to you from orcas and they they did like two two circles around us like what are these things? Then we're just like me boring and kept swimming. >> They they must know, right? If they're that intelligent, they have language and they communicate. They must know that what what a person is, right? >> I think this >> Oh, dude. I saw the guy that filmed this. This is so crazy. Orca headbutts a sunfish so hard it explodes. >> Boom. Turns into pieces. So, this is a newly documented behavior. Just in the last maybe 6 months, they've found that orcas will literally explode fish from impact, whether it's a game or what, but they're they're finding that this is not the first time this is done. They're doing this. They're starting to just explode these fish on impact just because. >> How are they doing that? Like, how how fast are they going? I do not know the answer to that, but it's impressive. >> I would have never imagined that that would actually be possible, right? Like how fast can you >> I'm trying to like What does the starfish look like flat like a stingray or >> a sunfish? It's like a mola mola. Those ocean sunfish with the big gooy huge huge 600 lb. They get huge. I It's >> How do they literally turn to dust? >> Dude, I think I think those are the orca equivalents of like a redneck that wants to hit a turtle [laughter] on the road and they're just like, "We're bored. Let's explode it." >> Or those guys that do that. Have you seen that game? Well, it's not game, but it's I guess whatever it is, an activity where these guys just run at each other full blast, >> dude. RNC, Run Nation. >> I [ __ ] love that. It's one of my favorite things. I'm such a huge fan. >> Don't you love that? >> I love it, dude. Cuz I play rugby. So, it's rugby boys that are doing it, right? It's like an Oklahoma drill except for rugby guys. And that's a drill that when I was playing rugby, we used to do all the time. >> Just run at each other. >> You just run. It's my fa run nation, RNC. It's my favorite thing. I [laughter] watch every video. Look at these guys. >> I would have never get They both just went unconscious. [laughter] >> Look at that. They both went Well, that guy's >> That guy's fine. >> But I've seen it where they both get unconscious. >> I want to bring these guys to the US and see how they stack up against like NFL linebackers. >> Oh, Jesus Christ. They both headbutted each other, dude. >> Dude, you love fight sports. What are you talking about? >> This is not a fight sport. This is just [ __ ] >> I'm such a fan. >> Oh, that's so silly. [laughter] >> Oh, wow. >> I don't want to do it to be clear. that you like that. I know too much about brain damage and you should too if you like rugby. >> I've had too much brain damage to know too much about brain. No, I'm just kidding. But um >> how long did you play rugby for? >> Well, I grew up in Zimbabwe and so like Southern Africa rugby is life, right? So it's like probably deep south football kind of culture. So I still play, believe it or not. Um except now I play very intermittently cuz one game puts me out for weeks at a time. Have >> you ever got your brain examined? >> Uh no I have not. I've only had one concussion in my life, so I think I'm okay. >> Oh, that's silly. Cuz you [laughter] you guarantee you'd have subconcussive trauma. >> What is subconcussive trauma? >> Well, you where you don't go unconscious, but you get rattled and then you have some brain damage. >> You're probably right. >> Yeah, soccer players get it. >> Really? >> Yeah, soccer players. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Chronic traumatic encphylopathy. >> Yeah, that's Soccer players get it. >> I did not know that. >> From hitting the ball. >> So, is that And you know a lot about UFC. Is that brain trauma worse than UFC type trauma? >> Well, it's all brain trauma and it's dependent upon many factors. It's dependent upon how many times you've been hit and also there's a gene variation. >> Uh it's a APOE4. Is that what it is? >> I think so. Yeah. >> Um if you have this one particular gene, uh it makes you more susceptible to CTE for some reason. >> Interesting. Yeah. So, like cuz a brain a concussion is when your brain sort of impacts against your skull. Is that right? >> There's that. And I mean I think it's also uh it's not just that. It's like if you get hit in the neck, you can get a concussion. Also, yeah. Also, a lot of people don't realize you can get a concussion from getting hit in the body. >> Really? How does that work? >> You get rattled. Yeah. Also, uh another group of people that seem to get CTE are people who ride jet skis. >> That's wild. How does that work? Well, my friend Mark Gordon, he's a doctor who specializes in traumatic brain injuries and treating um football players, soldiers, uh and he's treated some fighters as well. Um he said that any repeated stress, any banging, anything like that. Head banging. Like if you're [ __ ] >> headbanging Yeah. Like you're probably going to get brain damage. >> No way. >> Yeah. Legitimate brain damage. Like I can't remember what I was doing 5 seconds ago. Where's my keys? I forget what I'm talking about. Mids sentence. >> Dude, you're scaring me here. >> These are all things I enjoy doing. >> Well, I'm sure I enjoy running straight at people. Full [laughter] blast. Yeah. I just uh Look, those guys are animals. They're tough guys. No doubt about it. >> And those Pacific Islanders like cuz those are the guys that are doing it primarily, right? Like they play rugby league and stuff. They're built different, man. Like they're so hard. It's insane. >> Do you remember David Tua? >> No, I'm not. David Tua was a heavyweight boxer back in the day who uh was like one of the most ferocious guys that ever fought in boxing and it just just built like like a you're prototypical island warrior guy just that's David >> T just a tank. >> You don't want to run it at that guy. I'm telling you what. [laughter] >> Yeah. I mean, uh, just a monster. He would knock people out >> in He knocked out John Ruiz like famously in the first round and like something like 30 seconds or something like that. It was crazy. >> Different breed, man. >> Crazy left hook. >> Yeah, that that kind of guy. I mean, we've had a bunch of Mark Hunt, who's a famous kickboxer, was another guy built like that. Yeah. Just just wide as a [ __ ] barn. >> There's like no waste. It's just like a brick solid rock. >> I again playing rugby. I played rugby against guys like that and it was the worst. Well, those are the dudes that have the balls to get in a little tiny boat and make it across the [ __ ] ocean, [laughter] >> you know, and then kick your ass. >> That's what it is really. I mean, you think about it, like only the super robust survived, >> right? >> So, it's like nature just weeding out any possible weakness. Only the strongest human beings made it. >> Absolute natural selection. >> Similar to the African-Americans that we have in North America, like those are the strongest, best guys that came over here, right? And that's why they're all the most incredible athletes. Yeah, I don't know about all, but you know what I mean. >> Yeah, I know what you're saying. >> There's I mean it's for and also like when you look at like guys from Iceland, strong men. So how many strong men are from Iceland? Well, how many [ __ ] Vikings are from Iceland? Like let's weird when you think about it that like nature finds its way. >> It's the same thing. It's like we think we're so different and above like animals and stuff. It's natural selection. We just bring the biggest, the best, and the strongest into some area. Whether that's Vikings colonizing Iceland or or the Samoans on their islands or whatever it happens to be and you're just like, "Well, here's a superior population cuz we've all the biggest, best, and strongest have made it and all of the weakest have died off." >> Isn't that weird? Like you as a guy who studies wildlife biology, isn't it weird that we want to think of ourselves as being a different thing? Like we are clearly not. >> We're not we're not even at the top. That's the thing that people never understand. Intellectually, we are obviously look at what we've built. But like we're not even we don't even sit at the top of the food chain. >> Well, we kind of do because we kill everything else if we want to. >> Well, because Yeah. Well, not even our brains really. It's other people's brains that invented guns. It's like it has nothing to do with you and me. True. That's such interesting is like our brains are our evolutionary advantage. It transfers over to people that don't have good genetics. Yeah. >> Right. Like cuz you could be built like a bag of [ __ ] Like a literal bag of [ __ ] And you can kill a grizzly bear with a rifle. >> That's right. >> Kind of nuts, right? It's crazy. >> You can just be sitting there on a ridge. Yep. Like with a scope and boom and you kill a 1200 lb Kodiak brown bear >> cuz all of our biological energy goes into this thing instead of being physically big or intimidating or any of those other things. >> We can transfer what we figured out onto other people, which is no other animals ever figured out how to do that. >> Nope. Isn't that crazy? >> Wild. Yeah, >> it's really wild. Y >> it's when you think about it, it's like what a what a if you were studying us, if you were coming from another planet and you were studying us, you'd be like, "Wow, this one animal is [ __ ] weird, man. This one this one's doing something different." >> Yeah, absolutely. >> But it they would still look at us and go, "Oh, well, they're definitely animals." Like, look at them. >> Oh, yeah. If you looked at the Earth from an Earth shot, you'd look at what we've done and be like, "This is the top animal, but they're parasitic and colonizing the whole planet and changing things and manipulating things, whereas all the other animals are just getting by." >> Yeah. If we found out that there were were actual visiting aliens, that there there was actual intelligent life from somewhere else visiting us, I think there a lot of us would probably be like, "Why didn't you help?" >> Yeah. Why didn't Why didn't you come along and say, "Hey, cut the shit." >> It reminds me of the I don't know. Did you watch Do you watch South Park ever? >> Yes. >> There was an old South Park episode where Earth was like a reality show and it's so [laughter] like let's see who's getting along this week. The zebras are fighting with the giraffes and the people are doing this. And it's like it's like we're just like a reality show for the universe where you just put a bunch of species. We're like a big big brother situation. >> Well, we are kind of that for us. >> Oh, totally. >> We are That's what a reality show is. The reality show for us is the world. >> Yeah. >> You know, Lindsey Graham, did he die in a rocket accident or did he die? Was he poisoned by Russia? Let's tune in to Twitter and find out. You know what I mean? >> Exactly, man. It's hilarious. >> We are We are locked in on whatever the [ __ ] is happening all over the world all at once. And that's one of the weird things about social media now is that we're constantly being inundated with new things to occupy our attention, >> you know? >> Yeah. We have no attention span to watch anything for more than 5 seconds. >> But yet at the same time, this is the rise of podcasts. >> Yeah. >> Which are long form, >> right? So it's clear that that's not really the case with everybody. There's enough people that are interested in actual fascinating things and have an attention span. It's just like we're all susceptible to the the brain rot that comes with just scrolling. >> It's so hard not like I've tried to make conscious decisions because you know, you can imagine what my Instagram feed looks like, right? It's animal after animal. Half of it's AI now. whatever. And I still try and make a conscious decision to not look at it. And I find myself just reaching for my phone and doing this. It's just it we're wired into it now. >> That dopamine hits crazy. >> And it's not even really rewarding, which is really terrifying to me because it's not something that's like really feels great. >> And you barely retain the information. Like even if you watch an educational one where you're like, "Wow, that was amazing." You barely retain that information because it's such a quick thing until you're on to the next one. At least for me. >> Yeah. Yeah, there's a little bit of that in there for sure, but I think I've gotten a pretty good algorithm lately. So lately, for whatever reason, my algorithm has been really excellent. It's really dialed in to where I'm only getting like really fascinating things the last couple of weeks. >> Yeah. >> Oh, it's been great. >> That's way better. >> And then every now and then some [ __ ] [ __ ] comes on. I [laughter] just skip through it real quick and I'm like, got to keep this algorithm going good. >> Or you text me a Bigfoot AI thing. [laughter] >> Bigfoot buds are so silly. >> They're so bad. >> They're so silly. You actually texted me the Bigfoot one. >> Well, it was the same [laughter] guy you you said the same guy had texted you back. I was like, I don't think so, dude. He's like, "This guy raised a baby Bigfoot in [laughter] secrecy for 10 years." >> So bad. >> It's so bad. >> It's so obvious. It's like a shitty AI photograph of like like a blurry Polaroid photograph. >> And then you [snorts] read the comments and there's like 400 people going like, "Oh my god, I can't believe this happened." And you're like, "Come on." >> Oh, dude. Duncan and I um back in the day like in 2012 or 11, whatever it was when I did that sci-fi show, Joe Rogan Questions Everything, we went and hung out with Bigfoot people, we we actually went Bigfoot hunting. No way. >> Oh, yeah. We hung Yeah. We were with them for a couple days in the woods, the Pacific Northwest. [sighs and gasps] >> It's kind of sad. >> Yeah, >> cuz the way I describe it, I would said, "Here's what you don't find when you go looking for Bigfoot." >> Black people. You're more likely to find Bigfoot than you are black people looking for Bigfoot. >> It's just such a crazy white guy. [ __ ] white guys [laughter] out in the woods staring at shadows. It's >> like making something out of nothing, right? Like look at that leaf. It must have been here. >> It's just unfuckable guys. [laughter] It's really what it is. It's it's unfortunately that's really what it is. It's not that there's not something to the story because I think there is something to the story. I think it's an old story. >> Well, it dates all the way back to Native Americans, right? >> Well, not just that. There's how many we we looked this up before like how many different names there are in I think it was more than 50 different Native American seen this. >> Yeah, [laughter] that looks great. >> This guy was dead, baby. By the way, you imagine sitting that close to that thing, how bad that would smell. >> Yeah, it's revolting. >> I mean, that thing's been dead for who knows how long and this guy's just hanging out. Yeah, I take a picture. How do I look? >> Side [snorts] fun fact, this guy was on your mom's house like 12 years ago. >> Was he? >> Yeah. For what? >> Is he like a fun guy on Instagram as a dog trainer? >> That's hilarious. >> They Tom found his videos a long time ago and they brought him in to do a podcast with him and I just told public I know who this guy is. >> No way. >> I don't know why I got into Bigfoot. [laughter] >> He has Bigfoot's body. So two of them. >> How bad that looks. >> It's [laughter] so bad, dude. >> Oh my god. Look at these. >> Look at that. >> Oh, look at [laughter] the smile. I mean, he's [laughter] he could be just a full on satirical troll, which >> Oh, HE'S SAWING INTO IT. >> LOOK AT THIS. It's a cake. It's [laughter] going to be like >> It's a cake. >> Oh my god. He sawed into it. Open it up, Tom. Oh, he found a foot. >> Oh yeah. Very real looking. >> Very real looking foot. >> Also, if you can't trust a guy in overalls with no shirt, who can you trust? >> By the way, guy's in great shape for his age. >> He is. >> Looks looks ripped. >> He's out there lifting up fake big foots all day. >> Things [laughter] are heavy. I think there was I mean obviously we know that Gigantoopycus was real but we were reading about this the other day that it seems like Gigantopithecus wasn't bipedal and that there was some dispute as to whether or not it was bipeedal but apparently there are some biologists that are saying no it was most likely walked around like an orangutan huge >> just just oh wow >> just a huge orangutan looking thing >> huh no I I've heard of it I didn't know that it wasn't bipedal though that's fascinating >> I think it's under dispute. I think I think it's been disputed. That's interesting. It's hard to say. They don't have a lot of bones, right? They only have like a few jawbones and some stuff like >> of them. Yeah, dude. I learned something pretty interesting this last week. So, I uh I just got back from India. Literally flew in here from India and um we were doing some elephant rescues uh with Ventara, that big uh Indian wildlife rescue place. Um this elephant got hit by a car that we went and rescued. So, its leg was all jacked up. Speaking of non-bipedal things. So, you would think just the elephant would walk with a limp. Well, having that trunk, it's incredible. They use that trunk as a limb. So, I was watching this elephant walk. I wish I had photos or video to show you, but I was watching this elephant walk and it wouldn't put weight on its leg that was hit by the car. So, it would walk with three legs and its trunk as its fourth appendage. >> Oh, wow. >> Which is an amazing thing to see cuz you think of the size of an elephant's cranium and its head and the weight. And in order to move that distribution off of that broken leg, it was using this trunk as a limb. It was just, it was incredible. It was really sad, but it was incredible thing to see the way they sort of figured out how to maneuver using that fifth appendage. This episode is brought to you by Zip Recruiter. People who go that little extra step, like your ride share, pointing out the best local places to eat goes a long way. If you want people who are going to make a positive impression for your business, use Zip Recruiter. In fact, try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Zip Recruiter's latest feature lets candidates go above and beyond to tell you why they want the role and it shows you the most interested qualified candidates. First, try Zip Recruiter and meet great candidates who will go the extra step for your job. Four out of five employers who post on Zip Recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free. today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Ziprecruiter. Meet your match on Zip Recruiter. Does the elephant allow people to set its leg? >> So in in India, >> was it broken? >> I don't know. It went So we went to basically so I work at this place called Ventara, which is the world's largest wildlife rescue and rehab center. It's unreal, dude. It would blow your mind. I mean like on a whole another level. all privately funded by Anad Ambani, this uh Indian billionaire guy, the guy who had the huge wedding, if you remember that at Justin Bieber singing at [laughter] his wedding and stuff. He's a great dude. Him and I are buddies now. But um so [clears throat] he's funded this world's largest wildlife rescue and rehab. It like it makes a San Diego zoo look like a roadside attraction. I mean, it's like crazy big. And so he does all these rescues, right? So the reason I'm telling you all this is they go and respond to these rescues and then take it into this gigantic world's biggest animal hospital that they've built. So, we went and rescued the elephant and now it's probably by today back in Ventara. Yeah. Here you go. And and they'll be treating it. So, this is long toy. This is the other one. We did two rescues. This one was born with um spplay legs and then went into logging and so all the weight and stuff from logging. See? See the spllay legs [snorts] on the front there? >> Ouch. >> Yeah. So, anyway, that was just incredible. But uh the short answer is they do let people treat them because these animals are raised by in captivity by what's called mahoots which are elephant riders. >> And it's a really the whole dynamic is really fascinating. So you grow up with an elephant as a mahoot in Indian culture and then there's usually one or two mahoots that spend their life dedicated to the elephant and all they do is ride them, log them. They use them as tools but they still love them very much. It's just they use them as a tool. Elephants obviously aren't made to do that. So they break down over time. >> So that's why its legs are like that. It's from carrying the amount of weight that comes from logging. >> So that one would have been born with a deformity. Okay. >> But then years of compounded weight and everything else makes its legs like that. >> Oh, >> it's crazy. And then Yeah. So we go and we take the elephants in plus the Mahoots and take them all back to Ventara. Give the Mahoots a full-time job. These guys are sleeping on mattresses on the floor, right? And then take them back and it's a whole thing. Reform everybody. It's amazing thing. Yeah. >> Oh wow. So when they treat the elephants, like what what do they do for an elephant that has a broken leg? >> So most of it's just pain management, right? Because you can only get so far. So the one that got hit by >> you set them in a cast. >> Uh not really. No, you know, it depend I guess it depends on the fracture. I'm not a vet, but I guess it depends on the fracture. But what they do is they have and Jamie, you might be able to see it. It's incredible. They have this giant jacuzzi. Like imagine a jacuzzi the size of your building here for elephants and it's their hydrotherapy pool. So these animals that have terrible arthritis or [ __ ] up feet or bad legs like that, they just spend all day in the water because then there's no weight on their limbs. >> Oh wow. >> Which is really cool. >> Do they have medication like anti-inflammatories for elephants? >> Everything, man. This place uses unbelievable. Um, Eastern medicine, Western medicine, this crazy hospital. There's a lot of guys talking on their Instagram, unfortunately. But >> this one's got a prosthetic leg. >> Yeah. Look at that. Isn't that crazy? So they do these amazing mine. Oh [ __ ] man. >> But yeah, it's a really really cool place. Um, and we get to do some fun stuff. So I was I was really privileged to be part of those elephant rescues. It's really emotional when you see an animal like an elephant that has so much like intelligence look you in the eye and be like, I'm in so much pain and then you like start to relieve it. It's cool. >> I um went to visit this uh place in Thailand a few years back that has wild elephants. So they're wild elephants, but you you can ride them and that you feed them. So you make you have you make friends with them first. Like you feed them sugar cane, you hang out with them, you pet them and >> and then they let you ride them and they put their arm out like this like go ahead. >> Yeah. To walk up to >> Come on, go ahead. So it lets you know like, okay. >> I didn't like the riding part. It felt wrong to me. Just like it's a thing that like all the tourists did, but my family wanted to do it, so I said okay. >> Yeah. >> But it's okay. But the animals themselves are so sweet. Yeah, they're like when you're hanging around with them. They're like they're so one of them I I got a video of it on my Instagram. >> She was just like eating a log. >> She kept chewing on this log and I'm just hanging out with her and I made this like video with me. I'm like she's eating a log. I don't know why she's eating this log but >> she's really sweet. >> But it wasn't um >> it was it was a weird it's a weird relationship that they have. And then you wash them at the end of the trip. Yeah. So you get them in the they get in this pool, this big pond, and you could just wash them and hang out with them and they like it that you do that. So it feels good to them and they're like, "Thank you." Well, no, thank you for carrying me. >> There's good and bads. Like I mean elephants have been used through history, right? In war, in logging, in circuses, everything else. But now I would say in the last 20 years we're finally sort of waking up to hey a lifetime of being on an elephant's back like you can see the deformities, you can see the bed sores, you can see the hip displac or hip issues >> from carrying people carrying people. >> They're just not designed for it. You know they look you think they are when you look at them and you're like what could have you know we're like an ant on that thing's back but it it's pretty hard on them. And the hardest part is actually not you or I or anybody riding them. It's walking on concrete. >> Oh, >> cuz elephants have these soft padded feet. They're not designed for rock hard ground. So, the impact of walking on pavement is actually that compounding with weight added weight. That's what's actually so bad for them. >> I bet the heat of the com the asphalt too. Dogs like dogs hate the heat of asphalt. It's horrible for them. >> And the weirdest thing about an elephant foot, if you look at its anatomy, they're one of the few animals that walk on their toes. So, they don't have toes splitting out like we do. They walk on top of their toes. So that, you know, imagine that compounding on heat plus weight. >> Um, >> I got a good closeup, I guess, to >> weird. It's a weird animal. >> Yeah, they're cool. >> Isn't it cool that they thought that that's what a cyclops was when they found the skull? >> Yeah, because the skull. Yeah, >> that's why they thought cyclopses were a real thing. >> Dude, have you ever seen Have you ever been to the Explorers Club in New York City? >> No. >> That's worth a visit. You would love it. They have the Champuata tiger there. Like the most famous maneating tigers. Well, that's the one that killed like 476 people. >> Is that what the number something crazy? >> I actually have it on my YouTube and I don't remember the name. Uh, >> it's more than 400 people, right? >> It's crazy. And then Jim Corbett went and shot it. Yeah. And he almost named my son Corbett cuz I love that story so much. But, um, but they have the only four tusked elephant at the Explorers Club in New York City. >> Whoa. >> I'm sure Jamie, you could find a picture of the skull. Nobody knows why. Total anomaly. Nobody's ever seen it. Nobody knows why. I think it's the only one in existence. And it literally has four tusks coming out of it. >> Just a weird genetic thing, >> I think. So, like that sple-legged one we look >> sometimes with elk um they'll get an injury when they're young and then they'll get weird deformities of their their antlers. >> But is that different because they shed their antlers every year? So, they grow back in weird ways. I don't >> That's a good question. I think it's um an injury to the the skull. >> Yeah. >> So, an injury to like the area where the antler is. Like sometimes they'll just have one sword. >> Yeah. Like um there was a a ranch that uh in California that had this one elk that was killing all the other elk because uh he didn't have antlers the same way. Oh, they got a yeti scout. [laughter] Where'd you find that, Jamie? >> 11 interesting things you can see there. Oh, the explorers. >> Oh, interesting. >> Oh, I'm sure that's legit. [laughter] Um so this uh one elk had uh on one side he had like normal antlers, >> but the other side he just had a spear. >> Oh, wow. And so he was just stabbing all these other elk. The [ __ ] is this guy doing? Because he wasn't like they're used to their antlers interlocking, of course. And this is the thing. They get together and they clash and they try to impress the ladies. Well, >> there he is. The tusks. That's cool. >> That's so weird. >> Very weird. Four. And they're they're like weird. The way they're inter they're going towards each other is weird. >> Which makes you realize it's a genetic deformity, right? Cuz it's not like this perfect symmetrical like nature made it. It's it's just it's a mutation of some kind. >> Well, that's what's weird about genes, right? Like things go wonky all the time. Someone's born with an extra arm. You're like, "Okay." >> Yeah. Sometimes people are born with tails and you're like, "Oh, [laughter] >> so so weird." >> Dude, you you and I talked about Barbaruso one time, the the pigs that have those crazy >> Yeah. they go into their own skulls. >> My buddy who's a vet, he just cut a horn out of a sable sable antelope that was growing into its own skull. >> Oh god, >> it's I have a video of it on my Instagram, Jamie, if you want to see it. But it's um it so it got an injury so it killed part of the horn. And you know they're antelope they're not deer so they don't shed their horns so they grow forever. So this guy had this giant horn just circling back punching into its own skull. >> Can you imagine that dude? It was gnarly. >> The pigs are nuts though. Or what whatever that animal's called. >> The babarusa. >> Is it a pig? It's technically a pig. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's like a Indonesian warthog. Yeah. >> But the way it goes into its own skull no matter what. Like it always happens. >> Yeah. cuz they have to fight and break them off. And if they don't fight and break them off, they just [laughter] It's just nature's so weird, man. Yeah. >> I mean, that is [ __ ] crazy. >> They're so cool. >> I wonder what those things taste like. >> I bet they taste great. I think all the swine tastes great. >> I had havalina, which is not technically a swine. It's a peckery. >> Uhhuh. >> It wasn't that good. >> Not good. >> No. [clears throat] >> Huh. That's unfortunate. >> It's odd. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's like Oh, no. Just not the best. Like, well, you got to think of what they're eating. They, you know, for what I know about Haval, they eat garbage primarily. >> Yeah. I think that's part of the problem because like that's the case with uh bears, >> right? Like uh my friend Steve Reanella um cooked uh a bear steak >> or a bear ham on his friend's uh smoker >> and he said to his friend, he said, "Hey, uh you should probably clean that smoker. It smells like fish." And he goes, "I've never cooked fish in that smoker once." >> And it was just from the bear. The bear had eaten so much fish that as he was smoking the bear, all you could smell was fish. >> That's disgusting. It's like eating a seagull. >> Whoa, look at this one. It's going right into its head. >> That's the guy. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? >> Wow. That's nuts. >> And it's Yeah, he like cuts the horn off and you can see cuz the horn's a living thing. There's only >> How is that animal still alive? >> Barely. Like they he had millimeters of growth to go before it punched right into his brain. >> That's crazy. >> Isn't that gnarly? >> That's so gnarly. It's like digging and imagine that like every day just a tiny little amount more is growing into your brain. >> It's got to be this constant pain where like it just it just gets tiny bit worse all the time >> sawing through it. >> See how much into the skull it went like it was right there. >> That's crazy, man. >> So gross. I thought you'd like that. [laughter] >> I don't know what that says about me. You thought that I would like that. >> I don't know. >> That is gnarly, man. [laughter] >> That poor dude. Now he doesn't have any antlers. Yep. >> Or horns, right? Is it technically horns? >> Horns. Yeah, but he's still got a brain, so that helps. >> Well, carry on, bro. >> Yeah, [laughter] >> nature's a [ __ ] dude. >> Dude, it's crazy. >> Um, where's the thyloine, man? What's going on? >> It's gone pretty cold, dude. Really? >> Yeah. I mean, Damn it. I was hoping you'd come in with new evidence. >> I wish I was. There's a group that I've I've been working with like called Mammal Watching, like if you heard of bird watching, and they've been going into Western Pap and Papua New Guinea, which is, as you know, where I think there could still be a tiny population. >> And uh so I'm working with them. They're giving trail cameras out to guys. They're still hearing legends here and there, but it's just I don't know. It's It feels like the legends are getting fewer and further between, like almost over generational time, >> it's disappearing, if that makes sense. >> Oh, that's a bad sign. >> Yeah. That means whatever's left is probably dying off, right? >> If at all. Yeah. And I mean, I still hold out hope. It's something I've always wanted to be and I like I want it to be there, but it just it feels like those bits of evidence that were compounding have all sort of started to fade. >> That sucks. >> I know. Really? >> It is a very interesting thing with the incredible variety of wildlife that we have that we're so fascinated by the ones that might not be alive. this the like the things like the thyloine or the giant sloth. >> Yeah. >> Like I I remember I watched this documentary >> on the giant sloth. There was this one >> scientist, this biologist who had spent an inordinate amount of time, like years in in the [clears throat] Amazon looking for a giant sloth and was realizing at some point in time during the documentary that he might have ruined his career, >> overdoing it. Yeah. >> Because he might have been chasing something that doesn't exist. And it's this wild gamble if he listens to these people and they're telling him the truth, right? Because all the natives like, "Oh yeah, bro. They're out here." >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Right around the next turn. >> You'll We'll find them tomorrow. Yeah. >> Right over the next mountain. Yeah. I've been there. But you know, if you don't follow those leads, like do you know what the Sa is? The Asian unicorn. >> I've heard that. Yeah. >> It same thing. Same story, but real animal. And you know, there was there was basically one ever seen by Western science, an animal named Martha. And for years, scientists, Western scientists were going into Vietnam and Laos and they're going, "Yeah, yeah, we we have this thing called the salo, the Asian unicorn." and they're like, "Shut up." You know, and then all of a sudden turns out here's this giant bovid that still exists. >> What a cool looking animal, too. >> Yeah. And nobody knows whether they still exist now or not. Is >> that it right there? >> That's it. Yeah. So, basically, there's been three or four, maybe more that have ever been seen. Um, most of them caught in poacher snares like this one. But then really cool guy named Bill Robad got a call once from a prince and he had caught one and it was in his village and he flew in there and overnight the poor thing died. And that was the only time a single westerner in history has ever seen a live salah. >> Oh wow. >> And this guy had it and then and then he's like, "Can we please preserve it?" And the king was like, "Nah, we're gonna eat it." And they ate it. >> Whoa. >> Got nothing out of it. Yeah. He's got pictures and stuff, so you know it's all it's all real. But they call it the unicorn because its horns are so symmetrical that when you look at it from a side profile, it looks like one horn coming out of its head. >> Oh, like that. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> That's weird. >> Yeah. They're very cool. But it's a boit. It's a It's a cattle. That's That's not one. I don't know why they're using that photo. >> Oh, how odd. >> Yeah, but that's the same thing as these, you know, these things around giant sloths and and thyloine and Bigfoot and everything else. It's it's they are out there, you know, some of them, not all of them, but they are out there. And if you don't follow the lead, if you ignore it, then you miss things like that. Well, there's also like when you look think about things like the Amazon, like if you ever see footage of the Amazon from above, you go, "Oh, there's no way you know. >> It's so big." >> You you look down and you go, "Oh, well, well, there's no way, you know, this is this is way too big." And there's no way there's bunch of people scouring every inch of that place. >> I mean, given there are still groups of human beings unconted, you know? >> Oh, a lot. Like my friend Paul Rosley. Yeah, I know. Yeah. He's come in contact with them multiple times. See if you can get some aerial footage of flying over the Amazon. I mean, it's it's in multiple countries. It's what is it? Peru, Bolivia, where else? Brazil, >> Argentina. It's big. >> It's huge. >> It's so [ __ ] big. >> And I had a similar experience in New Guinea talking about thyloine where we got on a plane in a place called Tufi and flew to another area. >> Like look at this. >> It was just like this for 4 hours. We didn't see one building. >> Amazon in 4K. So just imag like there is no [ __ ] way you know you know what's in there. >> No way. >> There's probably a bunch of [ __ ] in there that no one has found. >> And then there Oh, undeniably there are. Um and then there's stuff you know like you'll get a kick out of this. Loch Ness monster. >> What do you think it is? >> Maybe a sturgeon or something like that. >> Jamie, what do you think the Loch Ness monster is? >> Don't [clears throat] I mean I think they know, but I don't know. Uh pro I don't know. >> Whale dick. >> What? >> Whale dick. >> Whale dick. [laughter] Not a narwhal. Pull it up. Loch nest monster versus whale dick. Look at this. And tell me this isn't what they think is the Loch nest. >> Wait a minute. Do you mean like the photos that the the hoax photo of the one that's poking out of the water? >> That one. [snorts] I mean, you'll see it in a second here, I think. But there are these photos of a whale's penis compared to the Loch Ness monster. >> And I mean, I that's certainly not proof, but it kind of answers a lot of like that's a whale dick right there. >> That is a whale dick. That photo I'm pretty sure is a proven hoax. >> That one is. >> Yeah. I think that photo was like a guy like made something out of wood and like floated it in the water and took a picture. Is that what the story behind that is? >> There's something along those lines. [clears throat] >> No. Loch Ness Monster isn't a whale penis. Professor says >> Oh, okay. [laughter] Well, the if the internet professor says it then >> Oh, a professor. >> Oh, well, let's take him seriously. He's out there. >> There's no whales there. If you're the type of professor that they call upon when they're trying to figure out if something's a whale dick, >> maybe. >> Sir, would you please study these nine whale penis and tell us your thoughts on this? >> Maybe that's what happened to that. What? >> It was his claim and then he said he was just like kind of messing around. >> Well, I'm sticking with it. I like it. I like the whale. >> He's the one the guy that proposed it. >> Oh. Oh, [laughter] >> darn it. I like it. >> He since walked back his salacious claim. That's so funny. Maybe that's the guy that was looking for the the giant sloth. >> He's like, I need a new angle. [laughter] >> This giant sloth thing did not pan out. >> I like it. Big D. >> If you're if you're a guy looking for a giant sloth in the Amazon, like where do you look? Like how good luck finding it. >> You have to find geographically isolated areas, you know, because they're little pockets, right? If little pockets of okay, people aren't coming in here, animals aren't going out, there's a big ring of mountains, there's whatever it happens to be. I I I met a guy who said he guaranteed he knew, you know, all these people like this, but I I always enjoy the story of it that there was this pocket in Peru that was completely geographically isolated by the mountains and that's where they were. And the idea is that these areas remain unchanged, right? It's like an island basically in the Amazon. Like things just don't change because it's so isolated from everything else. Well, I think the idea also is that giant sloths were where we know they existed in North America that um whenever whatever happened that ended the ice age, the younger dest at the equator was more of a northern hemisphere thing. >> Yeah. Because the climate shift was so much stronger. >> Exactly. And >> so the most of the animals that died off, if you look at like the I think it was 65% of North American megapa died off during this very short window. >> Yep. >> That that didn't happen right in South America, right? And that we're just guessing that they're dead. >> Yeah. >> You know, because if there was a healthy like think how many tigers are there in the wild? I think there's 5,000. >> Uh something like that. Yeah. It's gone way up by the way. Used it was down to 400. Fun fact, more tigers in captivity in Texas. >> I know. >> Than there are in all of the wild of the world. >> It's [laughter] >> Texas crazy, man. It's such a wild >> in people's yards. >> Yeah. >> In private collections in Texas, there's more tigers than all of the wild of the world. >> It's such an insane statement that should not exist. >> I love the state. [laughter] >> It's just my favorite place. >> Get away with it. >> It's just a wild place. Like for all intents and purposes. Yeah. Oh, it's hilarious. Um, >> wild for people, >> dude. I love Texas. Every time I come to Texas, I'm like, "This place is great. I always have fun. Everybody's so nice, too." >> Exactly. >> That's the best part is like nobody scowls at you. You get in the elevator and they're like, "Hey, how's your day going?" And you're like, >> "Very friendly. >> I'll tell you how it's going." very um a lot of people, especially coastal elites, I would like to say, like people coastal snobs, they have this idea of it being like filled with rednecks and ignorant people and foolish people. It's >> not that way at all. Especially Austin. Austin is like one of the most like liberal, easygoing, progressive cities. >> Yeah. >> But like even the progressives here, they're like more reasonable. >> It's like down to earth. Yeah. Like extremism, right? >> Well, they they're definitely more crazy than they were 20 years ago when I first started coming here. >> Okay. >> But way less crazy than like liberals in LA. >> Yeah. >> Or liberals in Cal or liberals in New York. >> Just where they're where it's just extreme, right? Like protests and all these Yeah. >> Well, it's like this there's a saying about Austin, keep Austin weird and surrounded >> and surrounded. What is the and surrounded? >> Surrounded by red people. like it's all red states around you and it's this pocket of blue that's in the center of this red state. I think that's good for everybody. I think that's good. It's a balance and like the the liberals that want to turn Texas blue like don't >> you're going to ruin it. You're going to ruin it for you too. You don't get it. Like balance is important. It's like you can't kill all the predators because then the deer get overrun and you you're hitting them with cars and you can't kill all the deer cuz then there's no food and I mean that's what they did when they were market hunting. Balance and you need balance with humans too >> 100%. >> And the Austin balance is a great balance. It's a liberal city surrounded by like hardcore Republicans with guns and tigers >> and it works. [laughter] And it all works. >> It works. It makes for nice people. and a misunderstood mix. >> It's interesting. >> They have a very a distorted perception of what Texas is, especially Austin. >> Yeah. Well, how do you feel as a California? I mean, you bounced around, but as a California transplant, did you bring your asai bowls and you're, you know, you're like, I need all that California stuff here? >> What stuff? >> I don't know. I mean, I don't know. That's like, that's the thing, though, right? Is like all the Californians coming here and messing it up kind of thing. >> I was never one of those. So my what I got out of California was the comedy store and [clears throat] work. >> Yeah. >> And then jiujitsu. So like you get all that here. Austin is arguably the jiu-jitsu capital of the world right now. >> Really? >> Oh yeah. >> Oh, that's interesting. Is this where the new league is based out of? >> No, that's You mean the the UFC league? Yeah. >> No, that's in Vegas. They do that in Vegas. Um because that's where the UFC's headquarters are. But Austin has um Kings World, which is uh Gordon Ryan's place. He's got B team is out here. Uh Shan Jra Hibro is out here. Okay. >> Um there's a bunch of Gracie Baja schools out here. There's multiple 10th planet schools out here. It's like there's an incredible amount of jiu-jitsu out here. >> So what I'm hearing is this is where to bring Run Nation. Bring it to Austin. [laughter] >> Don't eat that. They'll never win. The only people that are going to win are those wild New Zealand dudes and those Australian [laughter] guys. Those guys will win every time. They're built for that [ __ ] No, but it's uh it's just a great city, period. Artistically, it's always been like a great music city. Now, it's arguably the comedy capital of the country. Like, I mean, there's so many comedians here now, right? >> It's because they got here and they went, "Oh, this is way better. There's no traffic. Everyone's nice." >> Yeah. >> And and you can do whatever you want. And also, there's a lot of places to do comedy. And just on my street where my club is, there's five or six other clubs that have opened up since we opened up. >> Oh, wow. >> So, it's incredible. So, if you're a young comic and you or an established comic that just wants to work out material, you could go go to my club. You can hop down the street to the Sunset Room, which is my friend Brian's Club, right down the street, and you can go down the street to the Creek in the Cave. An amazing club that's just two seconds away. Oh, cool. >> It's like one block over. Like, everything's close. The Vulcan, which is right there. Everything's right there. >> Huh. >> It's incredible. It's incredible. >> It's great. I'm glad you're so stoked here. I love I remember when uh the first maybe the second time we hung out down at your show in uh not West Lake, where was it? Woodland Hills, right? And you were like, "Dude, I gotta get out of here." [laughter] >> Yeah. I wanted to I wanted to get out a long time ago. Yeah. And fun fact, >> we started the podcast because I was depressed cuz I had to move back from Colorado. >> Oh, really? So, I lived in Colorado for a little bit, but my wife got pregnant and when she was pregnant, it was like if you are an altitude, we were at 8,500 ft above sea level, it's rough. >> And we went back to LA for a short period of time and she was fine. And then we went back to Colorado and she was sick again. I was like, okay. And then we were reading about low birth weight, premature birth. is a lot of like really bad things that happen to people, especially if you're not acclimated and you move to these high altitude areas. >> By the way, >> working out there, when I worked out there, I I was I thought I was going to die and then [laughter] um I uh went to uh Philadelphia and I had to do some gigs in Philadelphia and I worked out and I felt like I could run through a wall. >> You just had so much oxygen in your body. >> So much. I was like, "This is incredible." It's the only time in my life I've ever been altitude adjusted like where my my body had adapted and I was like there's a ma this is a massive advantage. No wonder why fighters do it. >> And you don't acclimate being up at that height over months or anything else. >> Oh, I did. I certainly did. Like I could work out there and I I used to uh I did jiu-jitsu in Boulder. So Boulder was I was in a place called Gold Hill which is 8,500 ft above sea level and Boulder is like 55. >> Okay. So I was doing shout out to Amal Eastston, my friend Amal. He was a jiu-jitsu gym in Boulder. Great place. And when I was training there, it was fine. I mean, you train, but you definitely could feel it. It was And I had trained there once before >> when uh I had come from LA, and I was like, "Woo, this altitude is rough." Like, it's like working out in Denver. You're like, "Woo, you feel it, >> but not like you feel it at 8,500 ft." 8,500 feet was I do this >> these uh kettle bell workouts. And I was doing it and I I'm I'm used to what it does. I'm used to and I was like this is crazy. This feels like I'm drunk. [laughter] >> It really felt like I drank a bottle of whiskey and tried to work out. I was so tired. >> I went to the Himalayas like maybe four or five years ago to look for red pandas up in the trees. You know, those cute little guys. And uh day one I I literally maybe made it 400 ft and then had to sit down. And I was like, "All right, we're trekking for pandas. We're heading up into the mountains. We'll find these pandas." And I I just I don't remember what the elevation was, but I'd come from Santa Barbara, where I live, which is sea level, to this high Himalayas. And I I had to sit down like every 15 minutes for the first couple days. >> The most horrifying video the other day >> of this guy who was on one of those um summit hikes >> and slipped. >> Oh no. His friends watched him slide >> like all the way down to >> just sliding >> down ice and snow and couldn't stop and couldn't and they just had to stand there and watch this guy slide away. >> What can you do? >> Nothing. >> That's so crazy. >> D Yeah. >> Yeah. He was trying He was making it to the summit >> and slipped. >> Yeah. It's brutal. slipped off the, you know, just a very clear path and slipped off of it and just starts sliding >> and you realize, oh, he's gone. He's going to go off forever. >> That's crazy. >> Oh, it's horrible. >> I always want to like take my kids to do these things with me, you know, and I'm like, ah, I want to take them to trek and see the mountains and catch crocodiles and do all these various things that I like to do. And you realize it's like my six-year-old can barely walk in a straight line without falling down. You know what I mean? Like, imagine taking him on a mountain track. Oh, it's so scary. But on the other the other hand, like you don't want to protect them too much. You want to expose them to a certain amount of danger because I think it's good for them. It's good for them%. >> Yeah. It's good for them to experience. It's also good for them to have like uh a broader understanding of what the world is, right? Like the world is a bunch of different things. It's not just Santa Monica. That's right. >> Like, oh, there's Costa Rica. Like, whoa, this is crazy. Look at these bugs. These are nuts. Like birds. Like there's it's nice for them. It's important. It's it Yeah. >> Because otherwise we live in a bubble. Like America is great. I I say this to my wife all the time. I'm so patriotic. I love this country. >> It's great. But it's a bubble. >> Yeah. >> Everything's easy. It's safe. You can order [ __ ] on your phone. It shows up at your house. You know, there's a million restaurants to pick from. Obviously, it depends where you live, but you get my point. >> Yes. >> And then you get out of here and it's like, >> "Okay, everything closes at 4 p.m. Like, go figure out your food." You know what I mean? And then you're like, "Okay, well now I now I have two kids who are hungry and we're in the jungle or it's, you know, in a town that everything shuts down on Sundays or whatever." It's like, figure it out. >> Those are important lessons for little kids to be dynamic and figure out like how the rest of the world works and that they have to figure out how to get things when it's not all just at the touch of your, you know, phone. >> Also to recognize that there's going to be times where you don't have food. >> Yeah. Like, yeah, people are just so accustomed to having food anytime they're hungry. And in fact, sometimes when they're not even hungry, they're just bored. So, they start stuffing their face when they're bored, which never existed in all of human history. >> No. No, [laughter] dude. I just read, you might be well read on this, but I just read something interesting. The 8our night of sleep. >> Yes. >> Invented by a mattress company. You know about this? >> I didn't know it was invented by a mattress company, but I do know that traditionally in the past, people would do two sleeps. >> That's right. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> This was Yeah. So, you know about what I'm talking about. I just read this literally yesterday in one of my doom scrolling things. But, >> it's interesting because I did that a lot when I was young where I would wake up in the middle of the night and I just decide to watch TV and do something for TV for a few hours and then I go back to sleep. >> But it was just for me it was just like being indulgent because I was single and free and, you know, 25 years old and I had my own apartment. I'm like, I can do whatever the [ __ ] I want. Get up at 3:00 in the morning and watch TV for a couple hours and go to sleep till noon. Why not sit around in your boxers, eat cereal? >> Mattress part is a myth. >> Oh, it is. >> God damn it. Everything I keep bringing up is a myth, Jamie. No whale dicks, no mattresses. >> The killer of dreams all my stuff, man. >> I saw the same Instagram video you guys saw, and I thought it was interesting, too. >> Yeah, >> that is the myth. [clears throat] I think that might be a myth, but the two I think the two sleep thing it was a way that people would get up in the middle of the night. But you also have to think I think a lot of people went to bed way earlier because it got dark >> and we didn't have electricity >> and there's a normal circadian rhythm where people get it gets dark out. You eat maybe hang out in front of a campfire for a little while and then you go to bed. Like >> if you've ever gone camping, that's what most people do. Most people don't stay up till 4 in the morning when you're camping. >> Not without booze. >> That if you've got booze, you might be up late [laughter] telling stories and laughing. And if anybody breaks out a guitar, you're [ __ ] Then you're up all night. >> And you mentioned pandas. I was going to ask you about a me and I had seen going around the same places that pandas are fake. >> Dude, did you see the zoo in China? >> There's a lot of people talking about that. >> Did you see the zoo in China that painted the Pomeranians? >> I did see that. But the thing is about pandas is that I and I I went down a rabbit hole with this the other night. There were no depictions of pandas in like ancient Chinese history. >> No. Is that true? >> Yeah, it is true. Yeah, they they didn't show up until like God, I want to say it was like the 16th century or 17th century. >> That's bizarre. I wonder why that is cuz, you know, there were explorers going through the area and all of that. >> Well, the idea was that maybe they were engineered to eat bamboo cuz bamboo, if you think about it, is like a very prolific print. Absolutely. Like I have bamboo on my property. That [ __ ] just grows like It's crazy how well it grows. Grows so quickly. >> And there's almost no nutritional value in it either, >> right? >> Yeah. So, here's the panda. Okay. Interesting. The claim is largely true >> with nuance. So, was it what did you uh search into perplexity? Our AI sponsor. Is it true that pandas aren't in Chinese ancient history? The claim is largely true though with nuance. Okay. Giant pandas strikingly absent from China's classical cultural record. Unlike the dragon, which is weird tiger cr by the way, our conversation about it made it to the view. I don't know if you [laughter] know about that. >> I texted you. I texted you. You you changed your status to dragon believer. It was so funny. When Joy Bay is like he believes in dragons [laughter] like oh my god this is wonderful. >> That was so good. >> Oh, this is so good. >> Okay, so when did it happen? Unlike the dragon tiger crane or tortoise doesn't appear on ancient bronzes or pottery in Tang poetry song paintings Juan Y u how do you say that? beats me. >> Juan drama, Ming novels or Q I N G King Quing. Uh before the late 20th century, it had essentially no symbolic role in Chinese civilization. Its status as a national treasure is a post 1949 invention. >> That's bizarre. >> After pandas became famous famous globally in the 20th century, Chinese scholars went back and combed old texts looking for them. A few candidate references exist. Uh the Xi Jing Book of Odess and Shang Shu mention a creature called Pi or Mo which some modern scholars retroactively identified as the panda but the identification is contested and those same words were also used for leopards. Ta taper you say it taper. [clears throat] Yeah. >> Tapier. >> Mhm. >> Or mythical beasts. Uh Emperor Wen of Han se 2nd century B.C.E. reportedly had a mo uh buried in his mother's tomb. sometimes claimed as a panda. >> Huh. >> But that's it's weird. >> That is very bizarre. >> Fragmentaryary, ambiguous, and rare. Nothing like the deep iconographic tradition around dragons, phoenixes, or tigers. Why the absence >> Rogan style claim? [laughter] >> I'VE NEVER EVEN SAID IT BEFORE. [ __ ] YOU. HOW DARE YOU? PERPLEXITY. [laughter] >> That is so funny. It's a Rogan style claim. I think it's on the podcast also. >> It's listening right now >> cuz I it sometimes they'll bring in questions I've asked from like last month and it'll be like are you and I'm like no I didn't. This is a separate search but it's like all locked into the AI history. >> Oh I I asked it a question once and it said as you have previously stated. >> No way. >> I was like whoa >> interesting. >> I was trying to find out like how many views something had gotten and you're like as you've previously stated. >> I told you. Yeah. [laughter] I was like, you're using me as data? This is why AI is so [ __ ] up. Like, you're trusting me. I'm trusting you. Don't trust me at all. I GET ALL MY information from you, [laughter] >> dude. That's so weird. I Cuz you wonder cuz it's not like, you know, okay, there's no mention of ducks. I get it cuz there's ducks everywhere. Who cares, right? Like, so why do we write about them? But it's not something like that. Aandas were never so abundant that it was not worth talking about. >> Yeah. see if where this theor who invented this theory that they were engineered to eat bamboo. >> So who who did this engineering in this theory? >> Well, that's a question like who did dogs, right? Why do we have dogs, right? Which is really weird. You know, why why I have a dog. He's a King Charles Cavalier. >> You know those little I do. They're very adorable. >> He's so cute. I love him to death. But he and he's made an appearance on the podcast. >> Oh, nice. Um he's uh the furthest thing from a wolf. Like as far as we've taken a wolf Yeah. to make it so [ __ ] adorable and cute. But that is what it is. That was at one point in time a wolf. And somehow or another we engineered it down to a dog that's adorable and just wants to cuddle with you and sit in your lap and play >> and weighs 25 pounds. >> So what happened and how did we do that? And could you do that with a bear? And could you get a bear then take take that bear and make it something? I think it's the only bear that's a true herbivore as well. >> Yeah, I think that's correct. Yeah, true bear. Yeah. >> Weird. So, what have we done? Their digestive tract. We changed >> Yeah. >> And they're require like it's like koalas. I think they only eat eucalyptus. >> That's right. Yep. >> [ __ ] weird. >> Bizarre. Also has no nutritional value and you probably know this makes them like high basically. So I was looking up who who did it and started going on the thing that it's not no one is known for the theory it's because they're actually carnivores. >> Oh, they're a tax. Oh, so so it's koalas, I think, are the ones that are pure herbivores. >> They definitely are, but they're not bears at all. They're marsupial. They just call them koala bears. >> I see. [snorts] So >> when they say they are taxonomic carnivores, that means taxonomically they're in the order carnivora, if that makes sense. So, >> but it says with a short digestive tract and gut microbiomes of a meat eater. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's interesting. >> So, they're vegans, >> but you could selectively breed for anything to some degree if you had enough time. >> But look, but that's the other thing. Like, why are they so cute? >> That because they're so much cuter than any other bear by far. Like that face even with the teeth out like a >> buddy. They also have the best PR campaign in history. Like they're they're the dumbest animals in the world. You know this, right? >> Really? >> Oh my god. I don't know if that's the right terminology, but like you can hand a panda an apple and it will hand you its baby. >> I'm not joking, dude. [laughter] You can find videos of this. >> Well, isn't that more evidence that it's raised, that it's been engineered because it doesn't have the instincts that a wild animal would have? >> Dude, their parental instincts are bonkers. Bonkers. [laughter] Like, they will drop their baby and go for an apple. That's how zookeepers take their babies away. It's Dude, [laughter] it's it's like these guys are trying to go extinct. I swear to God, it's insane. >> So, where did the theory come from? See if you can find out where the theory came from. That they were engineered to eat bamboo. >> That's why I asked that exact question. It says it's just uh >> it just started showing up on my Instagram about 3 months ago. >> Huh, dude. Instagram. You never know what you're going to get. >> Of course. [laughter] But that's what's fun. Like, as long as you don't buy into it, >> dude. The problem is even like me and what I do as a biologist, I can I mean I'd say 90% I can tell, but there's a 10% where I can't tell if it's AI or real or and I'm looking at it going, "Well, that behavior is wrong, so it has to be AI." But it's crazy what's going on in like the animal space with the AI mockups. Now, I watched one today where it was a wilderbeast that a leopard had jumped on its back and the wilderbeast jumped into the water and the crocodiles killed the leopard on its back and then the wilderbeast got away. >> Totally fake. >> It has to be. >> Sounds fake. I mean, it sounds insane. >> Wilderbeast is smart all of a sudden. So smart that it figured out all I have to do is get to those crocs and the crops >> also like you're going to run. I don't like you're going to give yourself more problems, >> right? By going into the water. Yeah. >> By the way, multiple crocodiles. So, why wouldn't they just eat you too? >> They would. They'd just kill everybody. >> Kill everybody. Both of you are compromised. It's not going to just grab the leopard on your back. It's going to grab you, too, cuz you can't get away. >> Anything they can get. Yeah. Yeah. No. So, it's fake. It's crazy. >> But it was also fun. >> Yeah. [laughter] Exactly. It's also >> fun in a different video, but Yeah. Here it is right here. >> Yeah. Oh, so this is a >> this is a longer cut of the video, >> but you can see by like the saturation of the leopard's a little fake >> and like the way the claws are kind of like >> there's no claws. It's almost like softball pawing it. Do you know what I mean? >> Right. Right. Look how he's hanging on. >> This could be a video of a real wilderbeast getting eaten by a croc and they just added the leopard to the back. That very well. >> It's pretty It's pretty amazing. Look fake. >> No, bro. That's real. >> Guys, stop. [laughter] >> This is different. This one's different because this one the will also by the way the wilderbeast is doing way too well in that struggle. Yes. >> Cuz when the crocodiles do get wer beast they get them quick. >> The leopard got on this one. >> Someone put some time into this. >> Yeah. When the crocs get a hold of something is really it's a wrap. >> Dude, I just >> There's not much of a struggle. >> I just did I'm probably not supposed to talk about this yet, but I just did this show for Discovery that I've been working on for a couple years where uh basically I put myself in the perspective of Prey. So, I would have been in the perspective of that wilderbeast through engineering and doing all these like builds and stuff like that. And I lowered myself into a pond of crocodiles. It was insane. I had a cage around me. So, a very small cage. It was basically a coffin. >> Made out of what though? What's a cage made out of? >> Whatever the guys in the workshop could find. I think steel. >> Did they try it out first? >> No. I mean, we tested it with nothing in it and we're like, "Okay, this is working. I can send it to Jamie. I have it on my phone." But it was uh >> Send it to Jamie. >> Okay. [laughter] Dude, it was crazy. It was not. >> Why would you do that? >> I don't know, man. >> Well, it's like those shark cages, man. Those things don't hold up. You've seen that before, right? >> Oh, yeah. Where they go straight through the shark cage. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's craziness. It's absolute craziness. I'll f Here we go, [laughter] >> dude. We did. I don't know why I did Oh, you know what, Jamie? Go on the If you don't mind, go on the Discovery Instagram. I think it's there. Good. Good luck finding it. I can send you something in the meantime. But, um, I think they posted like a short teaser of it. It was nuts, though. So, I'm in this little cage. We rigged up these cables. Just >> Were you wearing scuba gear or what? >> So, I had a scuba tank with me in case the thing broke and I ended up on the bottom. [laughter] >> Sounds dumber out loud. >> And then you have so much oxygen before they can get you out. >> 30 minutes. 30 minutes before >> Oh, god, dude. >> And I was I was talking to our guy, so you know, is a TV production, so there's like stunt coordinators and all this stuff. And I was like, "So, okay, cable snaps. I go down. I grab the regulator. I've got 30 minutes to 40 minutes in my tank. Then what?" He's like, "Oh, well, I have this grappling hook. We'll throw it, hook it with the grappling hook, and pull it out. I'm like, "Bro, what if you hit a log?" He's like, "Hadn't thought about that." I'm like, "How you getting me out of here?" This thing, >> yeah, that easily could take more than 30 minutes. [laughter] >> Of course, it could take more than 30 minutes. >> So, you might have to get out and swim. >> Can you get out? >> I couldn't. I locked myself into the cage. There was no getting out. >> You did this? >> Yeah, it was pretty dumb. It was fun. It was cool, though, because it was such a unique perspective. But I [snorts] told my wife when I got home from that one, I was like, "Yeah, I think this is my last year doing this shit." Like, It's getting too too much now. >> But that's the thing about those kind of shows. It's like it's not enough to just see the animals. You have to do something that makes it spectacular enough. Get people to tune in. Like that polar bear one where the guy got in that big plexiglass box >> that literally inspired the whole series. I swear to God. >> I hate that video. >> It's crazy. >> I mean, I've watched it a hundred times. I don't hate it, but I hate the idea of it because >> it just shows you how predatory polar bears are and how they don't give a [ __ ] It's just trying to get at that guy. >> Isn't it crazy? >> Yeah. It's gnarly. [laughter] >> I mean, just actively hunting him. Yeah. >> It's so different than the other bears, which like if you get killed by a grizzly generally, it's like you [ __ ] up. >> Yeah. >> Like you stumbled upon one that's older. Yeah. Or you startled it or you know, you zigg when you should have zagged. >> Have you seen the city in Russia, the abandoned island city where the polar bears have taken over? >> No. >> Oh, you got to see this. It's incredible. I've seen videos of Russia of people like getting chased by polar bears in their town. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. There's like the one where the guy jumps on the snowmobile and like runs after him and stuff. >> Barely gets away. >> There's a whole area in the Bearing Sea that was a I want to say a former mining town or maybe fishing town and people moved out cuz it collapsed for whatever reason. This place, look at this. And the polar bears have just moved into town. >> Oh, they're living in the house. >> They're living in [laughter] the house. Look at this. There's just like >> Oh, they they took it over as a den. >> Completely took it over. >> Wow. How cool is this? >> That's amazing. >> They're just fully moved in, like living in the house. That's a drone shop, but they're This was not AI. This was legit. >> They're so cool looking. >> Oh, they're the coolest. >> They're so interesting. >> How amazing is that, though? Imagine like imagine you're out on a boat and you're like, "Oh, man. We've been sailing for 3 weeks. Oh, look, there's like a little village. Let's pop in there for a day." >> That'd be a cool movie. >> Yeah, that would be a good movie. >> A bunch of people like, "Oh, we found a village. Let's go there." You like head in and turn, you know, like set up and the and then all of a sudden you're surrounded. >> Yeah. It's all polar bear. You're like, "Why is there so much [ __ ] in this house?" [laughter] >> Cuz they probably just [ __ ] right in the house. >> So they're pawing at the drones. Yeah. >> Wow. Look how cool. They're hanging out the window like, "Hey, Tom." >> Dude, I >> Come on over. Have a drink. [laughter] >> You could put me in the glass box on this island. This looks so cool. >> It is so cool. They're They're an amazing animal. >> They really are. >> But they're they're so weird. They're so long, too. >> I went and did a a sort of a trek with them. >> Where are they getting food on that island if they're the only ones there? >> Oh, well, they're the only ones there, but it's not. They're seals and all kinds of other [ __ ] They'll be hunting all the marine mammals in the area. >> Yeah, they're they're the cleanup crew. >> And they swim huge distances. >> Oh, yeah, man. >> A couple have turned up in Iceland. Did you know that? >> What? >> Yeah, there's I think two or three cases of polar bears that have swam from Greenland to Iceland and made it. >> How far is that? >> I'm not sure, but it's not close. Obviously. >> Took the Vikings like a 100 years to do it. Yeah. >> That's crazy. >> Yeah. And then >> you swim that far. >> 200 miles. >> Wow. >> Are you Hopefully this isn't a myth. Are you seeing >> this one says it was shot dead after it did it in 2008? >> Yeah. And it swam across, right? >> Yeah. I mean, they get off. They don't want >> 100 miles. >> How crazy is that? Just take a swim one day and end up colonizing an entirely new place. >> So, it's like the David Gogggins of polar bears. [laughter] says, "Bro, I can make it." >> Feel no pain. >> Operation to kill the animals captured on film. Let's [ __ ] go. >> Video might not. >> Let's [ __ ] go. Let's see that video. >> I got an error. 404 bummer. >> Yeah, but isn't that crazy? 200 mile swim as a bear. >> Yeah, this says it might have well jumped off of just a piece of ice somewhere. So, it could have, you know, got a little float on, >> right? It could have hung out for a little bit >> to shore. But still, even 50 miles, >> that's pretty far. Well, they can last so long with the fat that's on their body. >> And they like snooze float. Have you seen that? >> They'll like they won't just like actively swim. They'll like kind of like snooze float in between hunting. >> Oh, >> it's kind of amazing cuz in the winter they have so much fat, you know, that or uh yeah, in the winter stored up getting ready to chill because they don't eat as much during the summer. Am I getting this right? I think so. Right. >> Um that they they like Yeah, you see them like snooze floating in the ocean. Well, they eat a lot in the summer to get ready for the winter, right? >> Uh, their meta I know they eat a lot in midsummer. They don't eat a lot. It's too hot for them to actively hunt. >> I know that. Um, >> how hot is it too hot for them to actively hunt? >> I went to Manitoba, Canada to go see them on foot and it was like 75° at the height of the day or maybe 70. And uh uh yeah, they uh they wouldn't be hunting. >> Polar bears were frequently tamed during the Middle Ages. What? says, "No bear has been captured alive in Iceland." Oh, but since then, receding North Pole is diminishing their hunting and mating grounds and jeopardizing their survival. >> Oldest sighting in Iceland was 890. >> Whoa. >> 16 [laughter] years after the first people got there. But what's crazy if you what's crazy if you think about that is all it would take >> if people weren't there >> is two polar bears over the course of polar bears lifetime to wash up on the island and then you have a population of polar bears there right >> do you know what I mean the male swims there 5 years later the female swims there boom there's a population of polar bears plenty of food you know >> what an adventurous female it would have to be >> true >> 1252 Henry III took delivery of a white bear sent to him as a gift from King Hakan IVth of Norway. He decided to keep it in a Tower of London. The bear was either too big or too exciting to be taken to Oxfordshire where there had been a royal managerie at Woodstock since Harry the Henry the first reign. What's more, it needed to fish. So, the beast was sent to the tower, and from what we could tell, it was well looked out for, although it had a muzzle and a chain to wear while on land. The sheriffs of London were obliged to lay out more than a shilling a week for its upkeep, which uh added up over a year to roughly the expected income of a night. >> What a wild [laughter] story. >> They had no guns to stop him. What the hell would you do to him? >> Bows and arrows, I guess, and spears. The bear had a long swimming leash. The the man wore waterproof clothes. What? The keeper. So, it had a keeper. The bear came with a Norwegian keeper. And the keeper was allowed to lead fishing trips into tames. How do you say that? Thes tames >> which uh the tower sat. The men wore waterproof clothes again built to the crown. The bear had a long swimming leash. >> There were salmon in the tames in those days. So while being in London was probably not half so pleasing the bear sitting on an ice flow in Arctic Circle, it sure beat working. >> The way this guy wrote this is hilarious. by the way. >> Yeah, >> they uh do you know what a sloth bear is? >> Yeah. >> Mean as anything. >> Yeah, there's they're in Japan, right? >> Uh India, India and into Nepal in that area. Um amazing. They're like a perfect example of not the size of the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog cuz they're not a very big bear, but they will take on tigers and everything else. They um a certain group I don't know the name of them a tribe I think in India used to capture sloth bears and they'd put a a ring in its nose like like a nose ring and then this barbaric it doesn't happen anymore but then they would take the bear onto the street as a street performer. I just read about this and they would light a fire and put like a big sheet metal over it and then walk the sloth bear onto it so the bear would dance cuz its feet were burning. Yeah. Um and uh yeah they called it the dancing bears I guess I I guess it was in Nepal >> and uh yeah was a horrific thing that people used to do. >> So rude. >> Imagine doing that though and being like oh this will be this will be worth a shilling or two like well bear baiting they used to do that with dogs. They used to have a chained up bear and they would allow dogs to fight the bear. >> Yeah it's crazy. >> They did that with bulls. >> Yeah. >> You know they'd have a chained up bull and have >> dogs attack the bull. >> Yeah. They used in South Africa in the early colonial days, they used to do it with baboons and let the dogs and the baboons fight and bet money on it. Yeah, >> people are so gross. >> It's crazy [laughter] that it's it. But, you know, like I always have this weird stance. Do I agree with any of it? Of course not. But we wouldn't be where we were and care about wildlife and conservation if we hadn't made some of those mistakes. >> Is that what that is? A mistake? I mean, [laughter] it's also if you hadn't seen half of your friends get cut in half by swords, you're probably the like your understanding of the value of life is probably completely distorted. >> Completely. Yeah. >> You're living in a horrific time. Everyone's dying of the plague. >> Violence is entertainment, right? >> Do you know what I mean? Like that is something to do. And life value is incredibly low. Life comes and goes. >> The coliseum was when when was that? >> I don't know. I should, but I don't. I think it was 2,000 plus years ago some somewhere around there when they first started having these crazy games there. >> Do you know they used to flood the coliseum and do ship battles and things? >> I went there a few years back and we went on a tour. >> Was it cool? >> Oh, it was amazing. >> But it's also like you stand there and you you try to take it in. Like when I go to these ancient places, I try to just like sit and just try to imagine like when you're actually It's one thing to imagine when you're looking at a photograph or a video, but when you're actually in the spot. >> Yeah. You know, like when you're in Athens Yeah. and you like standing at the Parthonon, you're like, "Okay, [clears throat] what the [ __ ] was this like?" >> Yeah. >> What was this like? >> And that was like the center of everything. >> Everything. Democracy. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> And also drugs. Those guys were high as [ __ ] They [laughter] were all doing drugs cuz we went to Ulysus. Elusis. Elusus rather. And uh that that's the place where they had the Illusinian mystery schools and they would people would go on this trek where they wouldn't eat and they would walk from Athens and they they would have these psychedelic rituals and you know you're in this place where they did it. You could like feel it. It's weird. >> Well, I mean obviously not synthetic, but were they was it just mushrooms? What were what were these psychedelics? >> Totally. No, but they have had residue from some of these clay pots that had urgot in it. >> What's urgot? So urgot is a fungus that has a very similar psy uh psychoactive effect as LSD. >> Oh, interesting. >> It's uh I think it has lysurgic acid in it. >> Like what? Let's find out what the >> what what what actually it also kills people. There's been cases of urgot poisoning through wheat. >> People have died and they also think it's connected to the Salem witch trials. >> Oh. Driving people crazy. And oh >> Salem witch trials. I don't know if this has been proven or if this is just a theory, but the idea is that if you have an early frost and that some of the wheat survives, but the wheat can have this fungus on it that grows urgot. So this this urgot fungus >> and so you're eating this wheat and you're making beer out of it and like everybody's tripping balls. They think everybody's a [ __ ] witch. [laughter] Like accidental acid. >> That's hilarious. >> Probably like, man, this beer is really good, >> right? until there's a witch and then you're like, "Man, this beer's bad." >> Well, there's also I mean, imagine, first of all, you've got a bunch of crazy superstitions and people are afraid of everything already cuz you don't know anything about science. >> You don't understand a thing. So, there's a lot of fears. And then there's a lot of people that claim to be the wise people of the of the town and they tell you crazy stories about witches and you're like, "Oh, witches are real." >> Yep. Oh, for sure. So lysurgic acid uh amides um ergoetrine all these share uh lysurgic acid erglene core which is why LSD semiynthesized from lysurgic acid is chemically related to urgot compounds >> and all of this comes from that mold on the wheat. >> Wasn't there a time where they they did it to people on purpose in France? I feel like this might have been like a CIA thing. >> See if you can find that story. >> Urgot or LSD. >> Urgot. >> I think they they they because I think they were experimenting on the effects of Urgot and I think they like picked a town and said, "Let's see." >> Cuz we know they've done that before. We We definitely know they've like >> and just hit whole places. >> Yeah. Let's see. Let's see. Yeah. Why not? Like think about like uh what we found out during MK Ultra that the CIA was running brothel and they would give the John's LSD. It was literally called Operation Midnight Climax. >> And so what they would do is they would have these two-way mirrors set up. This is proven. This guy named Jolly West who was the head of the MK Ultra, okay? >> Who would they would say, "Let's find out what happens. You give people acid. What's the best way?" Well, you get a bunch of people and do it to them in a way that, you know, totally unethically, but this is a way they're not going to tell that you did it to them because they went to a [ __ ] house. Like, no one's going to admit they went to a [ __ ] house. So, you get these guys, they go to the get to prostitute. The prostitute's like, "Would you like a drink?" Like, "Oh, I'd love a drink." [sighs] >> Hard day at a [ __ ] Hard day at work here. The guy sits down. He's thinking, "I'm going to [ __ ] This is going to be great." [laughter] >> Next thing, the [ __ ] walls are broken. Oh my god. >> The candles talking to him. [laughter] Did you find anything about the French thing? >> Here it is. I likely think of the infamous St. Espri cursed bread incident of 1951. Long-running allegation that it wasn't Urgot at all, but a secret CIA, US Army LSD experiment. What happened in Pont St. Espri, this small town in southern France. Hundreds of residents suddenly suffered violent hallucinations, convulsions, insomnia, and psychotic episodes over several days. 250 people were affected. 50 were committed to asylums. Seven died, including some who leapt from windows convinced they could fly or being chased by snakes and tigers. The official French investigation blamed urgot contaminated ryflour from a local baker. Um, uh, classic erotism, uh, St. Anony's fire. That's uh another case of it. Some later scientists propo or maybe the same story. I don't know. Some later scientists propose alternative culprits. Mercury fungicide, nitrogen tricloride bread bleaching agents or miccotoxins from aspergillis fumigatus. Fumigatus. >> I call [ __ ] on this. [clears throat] This seems like something where they test. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It seems like a CIA thing. 2009, American investigative journalist HP Alber Alberi Alberelli Jr. uh published a terrible mistake arguing that Pon Espree was actually a covert LSD field test run jointly by CIA's MK yeah MK Ultra programs and the US Army Special Operations Division at Fort Detric with Swiss drug company Sandos who first synthesized LSD allegedly supplying the compound. So his evidence included a declassified CIA document quoting a Sandos representative saying the Pont St. Espri secret is being discussed alongside references to LSD. Oh, they definitely did it. >> Yeah, it sounds way more likely. >> That's way more likely. Uh, [snorts] a testimony he attributed former CS CIA SOD scientist Frank Olsen, who died in a 1953 fall from a New York City hotel room after being dosed with LSD by his colleagues. [laughter] >> What a bunch of [ __ ] These guys just doing each other and admitted MK Ultra incident. >> Uh, interviews with former US intelligence officials. Why most historians remain skeptical. Serious push back came quickly. So symptoms don't match LSD. Victims had gang green-like vaso constriction. Weeksl long psychosis and physical necrosis consistent with urgot alkyoids. Not a single acute LSD dose. Interesting. LSD is water soluble and heat sensitive. So baking bread would degrade it. The Sandos cable alberelli cited is ambiguous and predates the incident in some readings. No corroborating documentation has surfaced despite extensive MK Ultra declassification since the 1970s church committee hearings. Yeah. But the problem with that is like one of the one of the reasons why we know about MK Ultra was evidence that they found that had been in storage. So you know when you say like Freedom of Information Act, they don't give you [ __ ] >> They just bait you with a little bit here and there to go, "Oh, okay. We know. >> They just tell you we don't have any evidence. Go [ __ ] yourself. I mean, look how hard it is to get the Epstein files. This is a guy that was alive in 2019, >> right? >> Where there were plenty of records of everything happening. >> Yeah. Exactly. And the internet. >> This This reminds me, do you know about the Lyme disease? >> Uh Oh, yeah. >> You know about this? Like the Plum Island thing? Yeah. >> Seems conspiracy. I I like I'm not a huge conspiracy theorist. This one to me is like a no-brainer. >> Well, it's also People want to say that Lyme disease has existed forever. Absolutely true. Not to the extent that it exists today. Also not as contaminate like not not as is right spreading like crazy like crazy like it's sweeping out west. >> Not only that Plum Island they were absolutely doing gain of function research on ticks and the idea was >> the the reason why they were doing it and this is this is all me what I've read. I don't have any direct information. Yeah. But what they said was what they were doing was engineering ticks with these diseases. So what they could do is they could spray them from planes and they would overwhelm the medical system of any like overwhelm a town, overwhelm their armies. You you you couldn't keep up and it would they wouldn't be able to fight. >> That's right. And it could wipe out food sources. It had like multiple implications. >> Exactly. [clears throat] So now we have these [ __ ] creeps from the World Economic Forum that are talking about the dangers of eating meat, right? And about how people eating meat is what's wrong with the that's why it's accelerating climate change. All horseshit. But they're saying it and they're saying that is almost a moral obligation to create a tick or to create more ticks that would have this alpha gal in them. >> The one that makes you allergic to meat. >> Yes. >> So they're saying that they want more of that. Yes, this guy was talking about not only that, I have a buddy who has it. My friend Evan >> from Black Rifle Coffee. He's talking about >> Oh, yeah. I know Evan. Yeah. >> One of my best friends. Love him to death. Evan has it bad. And it [ __ ] him up. It's not as simple as you're he's allergic to red meat. Like, it [ __ ] up all of his blood work. His his body's a mess. >> And he picked it up hiking and hunting. >> He picked it up. He got a tick and he didn't know. And he got he got bit. Um, my friend Burr Kresser, his wife's [clears throat] family, half of them have this [ __ ] problem. No way. Yeah. Tennessee, East Coast. This, uh, it's the Texas Lonear T. It's a Lonear tick, it's called, not the Texas Lone Star, but this one tick >> carries this thing and they think that that might perhaps be genetically engineered as well. >> It's crazy >> because there was no alpha gal problem. No, 30, 40 years ago. It just didn't exist. Now all of a sudden it's like ubiquitous. It's allwhere. It's spreading, too. It's Yeah, it's crazy. I I never used to think twice about getting a tick. I get ticks all the time hiking around doing the stuff I do. I never used to think twice about Now I'm terrified of I love red meat. I'm terrified of it now. >> It's not just the red meat. The Lyme disease is [ __ ] devastating. Lime disease. >> If you don't catch it early, >> it can [ __ ] with you the rest of your life. >> Uhhuh. Yeah. I I know multiple people that have it, including um Jim Miller, guy who fights in the UFC. He had it really bad. Um, and it [ __ ] up his career for quite a while, but he got his diet under wraps and he figured out like what to eat, what not to eat, and now he's fine. >> Do you know about some of those other animal warfare things they used to do? Like the the um spy tech they put in city cats. Do you know about this? >> No. >> Oh, dude, there's some amazing ones. >> Spy tech and cats. >> So, during World War II, uh Jamie would have to confirm what city this was in. Uh, I believe it was the Russians used to put little hearing devices in street cats because [laughter] because the the the Brits would go and meet in back alleys and have meetings, but there were feral cats everywhere. So, they'd have all these cats running around with these wires in their brains and stuff and these little little Yeah. Acoustic kitties. That's it. The CIA. [laughter] Dude, how crazy is this? Acoustic Kitty was a Central Intelligence Agency project launched by the Directorate of Science and Technology in the late 1960s. In the 1960s, intended to use cats to spy on the Kremlin in Soviet embassies. >> In an hourong procedure, a veterary surgeon implanted a microphone in the cat's ear canal and a small radio transmitter at the base of its skull and a thin wire into its fur. >> OH MY GOD, >> HOW CRAZY. IMAGINE THAT. You're just like having a secret meeting in a back cove, you know, back alley, and there's a cat there just live streaming your conversation to the CIA. >> Go back up a little bit here. It says, "Do the cat sense of hunger had to be addressed in another operation." What interesting [laughter] first acoustic kitty mission was an eve drop on two men in a park outside the Soviet embassy in Washington DC. The cat was released nearby, but was hit and allegedly killed by a taxi almost [laughter] immediately. was probably the thing was all [ __ ] up. I probably couldn't get out. It's like what IS IN MY HEAD? THEY PUT A WIRE IN [laughter] MY HEAD. SCHIZOPHRENIC CAT. >> UH, >> HOWEVER, this is disputed in 2013 by Robert Wallace, a former director of the Office of Technical Service, who said the project was abandoned due to the difficulty of training the cat to behave as required and that the equipment was taken out of the cat. The cat was resoneed for a second time and lived for a long and happy life afterwards. Lies. You [ __ ] killed that cat. It got hit by a taxi, but it was fine. And they took it out of its head. >> But I mean, more than one cat, I'm sure. But the but this idea, the equipment was taken out of the cat. The [ __ ] you did that? You you spent money taking the equipment out. Did you really? Or did you just kill the cat? >> [ __ ] [ __ ] >> Dude, there's a few of these. And the the bats that would light fires. Do you know about those ones? >> Hold up. The military did not give up on its use of animals as spies. As in 2006, the Pentagon requested the creation of a cyborg cyborg insects for use in espionage. [laughter] The request was made by [ __ ] DARPA, of course. Y >> uh of the Pentagon. Scientists at Cal Berkeley responded by creating a controllable cyborg beetle in October of 2009. >> What? >> There's a there's a cockroach under your carpet here listening to us somewhere right now. >> They're not going to hear anything other than the stuff we already talk about. >> Yeah, true, true. The wonderful thing about having such a [ __ ] show [laughter] is like >> who can't just say it ALL ANYWAY. >> YEAH. >> WHOA. Look at this. >> Look at this. >> Look at this. Is a [ __ ] battery in the beetle. That's >> badass. Look at the microchip on its back. >> It's amazing that the beetle can live through all this. >> Yeah. It's pretty amazing. >> That's wild. >> Wow. >> And and I and I guess as these things have gotten smaller and smaller as chips and battery technologies increased, >> of course. Think of think of your cell phone in09 compared to now. >> Right. Right. [ __ ] wild, man. >> Yeah. There were a few of these there. They used to light bats on fire and then they'd send them to roost and then they'd burn down whole towns and things like that. That's going back even Dude, there's spy pigeons where they put cameras. Like there's a there's a handful of these that the CIA tried. >> Well, how about what they did with dolphins? >> Oh, like the Oh, well, you know the whole the um not beluga. What's Yeah, it was the beluga. The Russian spy whale. >> I don't know that. I was talking about dolphins they use to detonate things. >> Oh, tell me about it. >> They use dolphins as like literal distributors of warheads. >> Oh, really? >> Get a dolphin to go somewhere and then they blow them up. >> No way. Like a kamicazi dolphin. >> I don't know the exact details of it cuz I got sad when I was reading about it. I was like, "Oh, >> I have a deep attachment to dolphins." I [ __ ] love dolphins. I >> I always say anybody who hates dolphins has to be a bad person. >> I've had some experiences with them. I had one where I was like really high on edibles in Hawaii and um the dolphins would jump out of the water near the boat and they look at you. >> Yeah. >> They look at you when they were jumping out of the water like look look at me like look they're doing this thing and >> and they're literally just playing. They're playing 100% playing because they came to the boat and they were jumping in the wake of the boat and the more you would cheer and yay look at that more they were doing it and they were having fun and I was like these are incredible creatures. >> Oh, they totally pick up on your energy. >> So the secret dolphin program began in 1959 to detect underwater mines and enemy divers. But I think they did stuff >> where they I mean [clears throat] whether this is correct or they just like uh change the history. It says that they didn't do anything to harm humans or engage in combat. They like told their handlers to do it. The one that I've heard about is that they put them out ahead. >> They were just signifying in dark water because they could see stuff better than our current technology back then. So they would echolocate and say, "Yo, we got something over here. Come check it out." That's what this >> Well, how's the dolphin communicate that back to the people? And how does it know what the person's intended? [laughter] I don't know. >> That was pretty good. I think there was some speculation that they actually used them as weapons, though. >> Well, have you seen V? Not to transition off dolphins, but Voldemir Voldemir the Vladimir. I don't know. The Russian spy beluga. >> No. >> Okay. This is a real thing. Like, like 100% this one's real. So, there was this beluga whale named Voldemir or Vladimir or something like that. and he turned up in Norway and he was escaped from a Russian spy program and he had a harness with spy gear on him. This is him right here. Look. Um, see the spy gear on him? It's like a whole thing. Um, and so [laughter] the Russians had been training this whale as a spy and had harnesses and spy equipment on him and then he just pieced out and and turned up in I want to say Norway and then they followed him for a while and then he mysteriously got shot. >> Yeah. >> Mysteriously. Yep. >> Some things with the dolphin, like with the dolphin story, I don't know if this is accurate, but I did read this one time that we would like with if we knew Russia was doing this, we would put some paperwork out that said, well, we've got dolphins that are, you know, blowing up mines, >> right? >> Just so you guys like, well, now you got now we got to figure that out wild goose chases. >> That's a good point. That's a good point. It's like you never really know what's real, right? >> How cool the beluga whales look, though. Look at that thing. That looks like an alien. >> N they're super super I mean, look at that. That looks like if the We have come to your planet. discuss your use of nuclear power [laughter] >> and he would talk in that very calm tone. >> That looks like something that would be very calm. >> Um, no, that was a Yeah, this was a crazy story. >> Well, you know the John Lily research with dolphins. Do you know about that? >> I'm not sure. Tell me. >> Okay. John Lily is the guy who invented the sensory deprivation tank. >> Oh, yeah. You have one of those, don't you? Yes. Yes, we have one over here. John Lily was the man who was the inspiration for the movie Altered States. >> Okay. So John Lily, who was this really interesting guy and was famously like out there >> with psychedelics, like he would he would take intramuscular doses of ketamine and jump in the sensory deprivation tank. >> Oh, damn. >> Yeah. >> Trying to unlock brain things. >> My friend Todd actually did it with him. >> Oh wow. >> Yeah. So John Lily, who was also a pioneer in interspecies communication, so they were trying to figure out how to communicate with dolphins. So they set up a house and this lady lived with the dolphins in the house to get the dolphin and trying trying to coach the dolphin and the way like literally she lived in water. So the water was like you know 4t deep and she lived with this dolphin. The problem was the dolphin was super horny. And so the only way that she could get this dolphin to cooperate was she had to jerk him off. Y >> so she was jerking off the dolphin and somehow or another they found out and they cut the funding for research >> but she had to do it. >> That's what I said. >> You got to do it. That's the joke. >> Look at that. It seems like she liked it though. Look at her. The way she's hugging him. She's like, "Yeah." [laughter] >> I mean, after a while, she probably did enjoy it a little bit. >> I mean, what else are you going to do? You're stuck in a tank with a dolphin. >> The girl who talked to dolphins. So, is there a documentary on this? >> Yep. >> Ooh. Let's uh Is there a clip? >> Uh, I'll check. Was it like blurry where you see her hand moving up and down? [laughter] >> Water turning white. >> So I guess but if she jerked the dolphin off then the dolphin would try to talk to her. But the thing was you can't really get them to they they can't make the noises that we want them to make. They don't have the ability like it could say it >> but it can't like the vocal cords aren't there for it. >> That's one of the things where AI may actually start to make a huge difference. >> Right. Yeah, cuz they are able to decipher a lot of like citation like dolphin and whale language now and with enough of a database they'll start to be able to say like this this means this this means this. >> Have they actively deciphered? >> It it's so it's coming up to a so bas you know how AI works you have to train it on something right? >> Is this the lady? >> I think so. >> She looks like the kind of lady that would do that. [laughter] >> I just >> she's got a real dolphin jerk look to her. >> This [laughter] is such a crazy story. >> She does. Listen to these orca whales imitate human speech. No, >> it says it's responding. >> Let me hear it. >> Oh, there's your guy. >> There's my guy. >> Yeah. >> Let me hear it. >> Bye-bye. >> A It's getting there. >> It's trying. >> Yeah. >> Amy. >> Whoa. Hello. It's amazing. >> Whoa. >> One, two. [screaming] >> I bet what it wants to say is, "Let me go, [laughter] you [ __ ] [ __ ] Put me back in the ocean, you crazy bitch." [laughter] Okay, quit jerking me off and put me back in the ocean. >> Maybe if they jerked off the killer whales, they wouldn't have killed them. >> Yeah. Yeah, [laughter] good point. It's like like just like SeaWorld alone, it's just it's so awful. And it wasn't until th those that documentary, what was it called? Blackish Blackfish. Yeah. That was like the first one where people went like, "Hey, >> it was really eye opening. >> We We shouldn't support this at all." I mean, I can't believe people still even go to [ __ ] SeaWorld. >> It's pretty crazy. >> It's basically prison. >> Do you know about those two in France that are trapped there? >> No. >> Oh, this is interesting. So, there is basically a SeaWorld equivalent in France and the government shut it down. I forget the I'm sure we can figure it out, but it was shut down, but then the dolphins and the two orcas were not released. And the guy's like, "These are mine. I'm not releasing them." And I can't afford to release them or move them. So, they've just been sitting in these abandoned tanks for I want to say a year now. U maybe maybe more. Yeah, this is it [snorts] here. The race to save these two. Um Jamie, I don't know if you can see if there's an aerial shot of it, but They just suck. >> Yeah. So, they're just sitting in this thing, but but it's closed. >> The guy can't afford to feed them because nobody's visiting. And then I believe the government just doesn't want to do anything about it cuz they're like, "We just wanted to shut you down. We don't want to actually like do anything about it." So, there's just these two orcas sitting in these tanks. >> And how do they get food? >> I mean, he's feeding them, but he's like doing it out of his pocket, and it's like few and far between. >> Oh, man. >> So, yeah, it's it's a crazy They're They're Yeah. the abandoned whales, and they're just sitting in these tanks. We've had uh Do you know who Phil Demers is? He's a guy who uh he helped shut down Marineland in Canada. Oh, >> okay. Yeah. >> Which was an awful awful place. Bad facility. >> It's like there's so many of these [ __ ] places like that where you see what they're doing and just like, >> oh man, if we could understand them. >> Yeah. >> And we we could I think someday in the future we're going to look back at that the way people today look back at slavery. Oh, we're going to say these are intelligent creatures that just they just don't have the ability to manipulate their environment like we do. But like just dolphins, their cerebral cortex is 40% larger than a human beings. >> So something's going on in there and you think it's okay to put them in a swimming pool. That's crazy. >> Dude, it's the same thing like what I was talking about elephants. Their their EQ, their emotional intelligence. We can't even comprehend it. Like the way those animals feel like the highs that an an elephant experiences and the lows it experience are way bigger than the highs or lows that most humans I think any human can experience. Like their EQ is way bigger than ours. The trauma that they feel from losing a loved one or from being abused or whatever it happens to be is like 10x what humans can even emotionally comprehend. >> How do we know that? >> Based on their their brain scans and whatnot. I don't know the specifics of it but because that part of their brain is so much larger than ours. Wow. >> And so you have these, they might not have the same like computive skills as we do mentally, but they have this emotional intelligence that's like so much deeper and broader than ours. At least that's my belief. >> It is a weird thing with us where we only characterize intelligence as the ability to manipulate your environment. >> Yeah. Like >> we we want you to write a book, >> right? >> I don't I don't trust you. You're real. You're really smart. Make a house. >> Prove it. >> Why don't you Why don't you How come you don't have a rocket ship? >> Right. Right. [laughter] >> If you're so smart, where's your phone? >> Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird, right? >> It's a weird way to look at things. >> Yeah. It's like I think there's a part of people that recognize that this this direction that people like that this classification of intelligence >> in that way is is wrong. But I don't I don't think we can really quantify it yet. And if AI really can decipher dolphin language, orca language, whale language, if they really can and we realize that they're actually communicating God, I would hope that would change our approach to how we deal with those things. >> I think it would >> because there's I think they are sea people. Yeah. >> They're just they don't need to manipulate their environment. First of all, they can travel 3D. >> They go up, they go down, they go across, they can hold their breath for an hour. They don't need to make a house. No, >> their food is everywhere. Also, they're at the top of the [ __ ] food chain. That's right. >> They're orcas, >> and they're no they're nomadic. They don't. They don't. We are not nomadic by trade. So, we have to manipulate our environment to make it more comfortable. >> Slow. >> Yeah. >> They move so fast they can make a sunfish explode. [laughter] >> Straight up. Yeah. Straight up. >> We're so slow. Like the fastest people like we just run into each other and knock each other unconscious. That's That's what we could do. >> Fun to watch though, [laughter] dude. Uh but I want to go back to what you said about I I agree, by the way, about orcas and captivity and whales and things like that. There's this huge anti-zoo movement that I just don't agree with, though. Like I I believe I agree with you that in the future we'll go, why did we keep animals the way we did? And when you look at old zoos and concrete boxes and stuff, >> but there's so much good that animals in captivity have done. Saving species, keeping things alive, connecting kids to nature, there's a is a lot of gray area. There's Tiger King and there's [ __ ] San Diego Zoo. You know what I mean? There's a lot of nuance to it. So >> San Diego Zoo is an excellent example of a really great zoo. It's unbelievable. It's incredible. >> I've been to that place before. >> Yeah. >> Um but I also went to that wolf place with you. Yeah. >> And that made me sad. >> I know. Yeah. I know. >> We went there. I was bummed out, man. >> But at least they're rescuing them, you know? Like >> I know. But they also cut their balls off. >> Yeah. >> That bummed me out hardcore. >> Otherwise, they all fight. I mean, but that's the gray area that you have like what's the alternative, you know? It's like they die. >> Let them loose. >> But then none of but only a few of them were pure wolves. You can't just let loose a wolf dog, you know? Cuz then you're muddying jeans. It's such a complicated thing. >> Well, isn't that the whole reason why black wolves exist in the first place? I think black wolves exist because it's a trait that they got from domesticated dogs. I >> I read that and then I read it was false and then I read it again. I don't know what the truth behind that is. >> Let's put it into perplexity. They'll probably say it's a rogeness claim [laughter] >> as stated on today's podcast. >> How do you want to word that so you kind of get a good [clears throat] >> uh That's interesting. How do you word that? Um, would you say um is it true that black wolves inherited that trait from domesticated dogs? Because that is one thing that absolutely has happened is that there's been interbreeding between and not just on purpose. No, like Yeah, >> it happens. Yeah. I mean, you get wolves and Yeah, it does. >> Yeah. Yeah. Is the genetic mutation of a black fur color >> brought about by domestication? >> Yes. >> Oh, hold on. Is it? >> Sorry, [laughter] throwing a lot at you, Jamie. >> Is it Is the black the trait of black wolves, did they inherit that from domesticated dogs? [snorts] >> Edit my thing, man. Is that [clears throat] good enough or not? >> Uh, from domesticated dogs, >> I would. Yeah. Yeah. See, see what it says. >> Let's see. If you're not pointed enough, it'll start guessing what >> I love watching it work where it's like spinning. Yes, this is well supported by genetic research. >> Black coat color in North American wolves comes from mutation in the K locus, especially specifically, [cough] excuse me, a [clears throat] three base pair deletion in the CBD103. Uh, I don't know what that little thing is. >> Yeah, I don't know. >> Defense in gene defense. >> Is that what it is? >> I think so. uh produces a dominantly inherited melanistic phenotype. The mutation originated in dogs and moved into wolves through hybridization, not the other way around. Interesting. >> 2009 study by Anderson at all uh first identified the KB black alil in wolves is derived from dog wolf interbreeding. >> Followup work analyzing 331 wolves and 20 dogs found that North American wolf uh how do you say that word? Hlo types. >> Oh, haplo type. Yeah. >> Uh are monofillettic >> meaning a sing I feel like you're my teacher. [laughter] A single >> Mhm. >> Good job. >> introgression event from dogs most likely seated uh the al through the continent probably in the Yukon or north northwest territories. Um you know I um went to where Colossal has made the direwolves. >> Ben texted me when you guys went. That was a interesting experience. >> Was that cool to see? >> Yes. >> I haven't even seen him. I know it's a whole hush hush. You know, >> I brought my youngest daughter and she was cuddling with the four-month old wolf. >> Well, there you go. >> You can cuddle with them when they're 4 months old up until a certain point, but it was like a puppy >> and it was still huge, right? >> It was No, no, no, no, no. It was pretty small. >> Yeah, >> it was like uh 40 [snorts] lb, something like that. It was so [ __ ] cute, man. She was so sweet. She was so sweet. She would cuddle with you and you you pet her and she'd kiss you. It was like a [ __ ] dog, man. That is her name. There you go. That is >> Oh my god, she's so sweet. But the males, they had two males that had >> That's her name. That's right. Kesi's the girl. [snorts] >> So there's Romulus. Look how cute they are when they're little babies. Remis >> Remis Romulus and then Kesi the girl. >> That was pretty cool. >> So Khesi was the one that we got to to cuddle with. >> Man, they're cute. >> Oh my god, she was so [ __ ] adorable. But you [laughter] could only hang out with her for a little while and then they got big and now they're big. He sends me pictures. So they were like that when we went there. >> Like that size. >> Like that size. The >> males. I don't know if I let my kids [clears throat] in with a wolf that size. >> Well, they kept away from you and um we were in a large contained area. Um but we got to go out with them. >> Yeah. >> And uh they just kind of hang out and look at you. They keep away from you for the most part. But she didn't. She She wanted But she can't be with them yet. Sheales. Yeah. She was too little. Interesting. It was too like, you know, they didn't want her to get killed and was just too sketchy. She was tiny. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And she was, you know, she was still a baby still. But they were older. I think they were a year or close to a year. But they could hang out with them for the first like five or six months, I think. And then after a while, they just got different. There's also some stuff about them that they didn't even know direwolves had, like the mane, which is interesting. They have a mane. Like almost like a lion's mane. >> Wow. which they didn't know and they didn't know they were going to be white either. >> Now, is that a variant from their genetic mutation work or is that something that's just expressing itself? >> Very good question that you would have to talk to a geneticist about because like there's a lot of people that don't even agree they're actually direwolves >> a lot. Yeah. A lot. >> They're essentially saying that what you've done is you've taken the traits of direwolves and you've made them be expressed in a greywolf. This is a greywolf. >> But that's what Beth says they've done. You know what I mean? Like she's she's not they're not hiding that. They're like we're trying to fill a niche. We're trying to make something. >> Yes. Yeah, but she's also said that I think I don't want to mischaracterize, but I essentially what they're saying is but that's what a direwolf was, right? Like that they are a wolf that has all of these traits, right? Like the size is the same, the look is the same. You can get technical and say, "No, you've taken a greywolf and made it." But yes, but they got those genes specifically from dead direwolves, >> right? So, it's like, well, what is it? Our own classification of these things that we're disputing, right? Because we can't just decide like that this I call this a direwolf and that's what it is. Like, the genes don't give a [ __ ] what labels you put on them. Not at all. >> You know, and if you make a dinosaur like that's not a real T-Rex. It ate everyone in the city. It's a real T-Rex. It just took over a [ __ ] city and it just ate everyone in a VW bus. >> It's a 30 foot tall lizard. It's a dinosaur. Like, it doesn't matter how you shape it. [clears throat] Yeah. >> Oh, the woolly mouse is really cool, too. Yeah, they're really neat. Ben Ben Ben Ben told me one day I could have a woolly mouse, so I'm holding them to that. Yeah, [laughter] >> it's it's really interesting seeing the dire wolves though and just imagining what was it like when those things are just roaming the earth. >> I know >> cuz it's like a 200lb wolf that's all white with like thick fur and and a mane like a lion. >> Dude, speaking of roaming the earth, did have you heard the theory about how uh sloth bears stopped Sorry, not sloth bears. Uh ca uh what were the big cave bears in Shortfaced bears stopped human immigration? >> Yes. >> Have you read about that? Yeah, that's really cool. >> Totally makes sense. >> It totally does. They just stood there waiting for people like salmon to cross the bearing land [laughter] bridge and they're like, "Well, it's that time of year again." >> Also, like who would do that knowing that those things are out there? That thing was so big. It's like double the size of a polar bear. >> It's crazy. Yeah. >> A twice large polar bear that is can run 50 m. Look at that thing. I don't care how smart we are. That is not something you want to face, >> right? Even if you have a gun, like good luck. Like if you have a 9 mm handgun and you run across a grizzly bear, you're dead. >> Yeah. >> It's not going to be enough firepower. So how what are you going to what are you going to hit that thing with? So you know that's good. Rocks and spears. Yeah, >> rocks. [laughter] >> Oh, rocks. >> I mean, when they first started coming across, did they even have [ __ ] bows and arrows that yet? >> I I don't know. Yeah, but they I mean spears for sure, but like that. >> But then there's the the there's the real question. Is that the only way people got here? When you see the white sands footprints that are 22,000 years old, and you start going, okay, well, this predates the ice age. >> It's before any humans were known anywhere in the new world. >> Yeah. So, it's like, well, what's going on there? Cuz this is actual human footprints >> that have been dated to 22,000 years ago. And that's just all we found. >> Yeah. >> That's just because they left footprints. Like that doesn't mean there wasn't something there 50,000 years before, 100,000 years before. >> Exactly. >> And then there's in Mexico this evidence that looks like predation on mammoth bones by humans. >> Oh, really? Like spearheads and things, >> carvings into mammoth bones and looks like they're broken open to get marrow. Very disputed, right? Because there's also >> some people that think it could have been like some rocks falling on the bones that cracked open. I'm not sure how this is happening, but it does think they >> Oh, let me write this up for Joe. [ __ ] off. >> I'm going [laughter] have to figure something. I might [clears throat] have to erase some stuff. >> What is We're going to have to get a a a separate computer that we only use for perplexity. Um, what is the question? >> Oh, sorry. Um, well, how would humans have contested shortfaced bears on the bearing straight? >> Look at Let me write this up for Joe. [ __ ] off, man. [laughter] Like a baby. The actual >> evidence of monster bears kept humans out of North America. doesn't hold up any longer apparently. >> Uh human >> so yeah when I was finding people said it was a myth that someone a scientist sort of commented on a paper that doesn't necessarily he could have thought that but they didn't really have evidence for it. >> Well here's the thing like the idea of a bear line. No cuz the problem is bears they would have to eat so much to sustain that kind of mass. Yeah. >> That there couldn't really have been a lot of them. >> No. But it it sure makes sense that they were predating upon people when they came across. >> Oh, hold up, hold up. Go back back up here. This this guy's saying something kooky. He's saying that a hyper carnivore built for pacing long distance. He argued that it was primarily a scavenger using it size, sense of smell, and long-legged gate >> to kleptoarici parasitiz. >> You got it. There it is. kills from lions, direwolves, and scimitar cats rather than the rundown prey itself. That doesn't even make sense. Longlegged gate would make it faster. I I I've heard about this. So, yeah, the theory is that shortfaced bear would come in and rob a kill like basically what a hyena does to lions >> or what wolves do to mountain lions. >> Yes, but I think it to me it doesn't add up. >> Well, well, you know, grizzly bears chase down moose and kill them. There's plenty of videos. I watched a video yesterday of it. They've also shown now that hyenas are incredibly efficient predators. And until like 10 years ago, we thought hyenas were only scavengers or I mean it's longer than that, but you know what I mean. And now they show they have like a 30% success rate, which is very high. >> Yeah. There's no reason why they wouldn't be if they're carnivores. Like why would they be completely relying on other animals to do the work for them when they have that kind of biting power? >> They they're just opportunistic like all carnivores >> and they move as packs. Yeah. >> They work as pack animals. So they kind of move like dogs. If if you're going to get food, get food. Do you know what I mean? If you can kill it, kill it. If you can fight something off for it, fight something off for it. Like, it doesn't really matter. That's how carnivores are. >> What is this, J? What are you saying? >> It says this is how they hunted brown bears. They probably would have done it the same way. >> Oh, get him in the dens >> and then Yeah. burn it. Burn the entrance with fire. Probably kill the babies, >> right? But that's if you had access to fire. >> They had an adult and a spear at best and maybe some fire that they could maybe move. You know, >> you know how close you have to be to hit something with an adult? >> Yeah. >> Okay. There's uh there's some videos that are really interesting where they're showing people uh realistic scenarios where a bear is charging you and Oh. And they pull the out. Yeah. Showing bear spray and guns like showing them like imag like imagine you have a 10 mm semi-automatic pistol and you have to rack it. So you have to rack a slide. So the gun the bear's coming. You have to draw the gun, rack it, >> take the safety off, >> and then point it towards the animal and squeeze it to you're dead. >> You're done. >> You're already dead. >> It's It's like that. >> It has to be like a hundred yards away from you as it starts running for you to get a shot off. >> I think the like idea is the bear gives you some sign. >> Look at that [ __ ] ass thing. [laughter] >> I've tried one. It is impossible to throw accurately. >> Well, that's true, but you're not practiced in it, right? >> No, of course not. Yeah. I mean, I've seen people that are super accurate with spears. >> Isn't your buddy Adam Greenree, doesn't he do the atl? [laughter] >> He might. He's such a psycho. >> I think I've seen him. >> He probably knows how to do it. Yeah, but I mean, pretty wild. >> It's not a good weapon. >> No, >> I mean, it's definitely better than no weapon, but >> I mean, what's the advantage over throwing a spear? It just goes further. >> Mechanical leverage. So, it's I have a thing like that for my dog. It's like a It's like a thing >> that has a ball on the end of it and you can It's so easy to not blow your shoulder out. You can throw it pretty [ __ ] far, right? >> And and I when every time I do it I was like, "Wow, of course this is way better." You got extra leverage with this thing. And then also you can kind of whip it with your wrist and you get all this action >> with the ball. You You would do the same thing with a spear, with a battle. It makes sense. It makes sense. >> Seems hard to be accurate though. >> Super hard. Well, it's hard to be accurate with a traditional bow, >> right? >> You know, it's so hard. Like I, you know, I shoot a compound bow. >> And a compound bow is uh [sighs] >> there's so much technology involved. Oh, yeah. First of all, I have a laser rangefinder and I I'll range something. It says 52 yards. Then I go to my sight tape that's on my my sight on my bow and I dial it to 52 yards because I use archery software that measures the weight of my arrow. So I have this 500 grain arrow and then it has the speed per so it's 390 feet per second from a 500 grain arrow and then it I put it into this computer and it spits out a sight tape so that I can move my pins specifically so I can put it in a quarter at 52 yards if I was accurate enough. I'm not no one really is except like really excellent worldass archers. But >> with a traditional bow you're just guessing. >> Yeah. So, you're just guessing the arc of the arrow. And then you have to think, okay, I'm buying arrows, right, that are made by a guy who's measuring them. They're all down to like they're within two grains of each other, and they have like inserts. My front of center is very high, >> perfect aerodynamics, >> and they're made out of carbon fiber. These [ __ ] arrows, they're making them by hand. And then they're making the arrow heads by hand. So, they could be off each one of them. Like so you're just guessing where that [ __ ] arrow is going to go and you have to shoot every day to get a real sense of like what the drop is at a certain distance and then you have to kind of judge how far is he. Is he 20 yards? Is he 30 yards? Is he 50 yards? >> So even with modern traditional bows and that's like that sounds like a >> Yeah, I know what you mean. Recurves and long bows. >> Yeah, right. I mean it that sounds like an oxymoron but they are still traditional in the sense of you're not using cams. Yeah, >> you don't have like a cam that rolls over and it's a mechanical advantage and fiberglass limbs and all this jazz. You're using like wood still, right? Even with those things, you're still buying arrows and the arrows weigh the same amount. >> Yeah, they're perfect. >> So, if you did that over and over again in your yard, you did it every day for 3 hours a day, you would get a sense of how far. And then >> if you did it a bunch, you'd get an idea of judging distances. And there's like little tricks. There's certain archery tournaments where you're not allowed to use a rangefinder. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. And so the idea is you have to develop the skill of being and I think these tournaments probably started back when rangefinders didn't exist and then when rangefinders did exist they're like nah that's cheating. >> Keep that out. So and then the targets are at various and so guys develop a very good way of measuring distance. Sure. And what essentially they do is they they can pretty accurately judge five yards and then they double that and then they triple that and then they try to figure it and they get within like 10 or 15 yards. Sure. But you you know that's a lot even with a compound bow. You know that drop of 10 or 15 yards is pretty significant. Even something that's going 300 feet a second. But when you're doing >> with a [ __ ] wooden arrow that you made yourself with a stone tip like like one of these bad boys. I have one here somewhere somewhere on this desk. >> Yeah, >> here it is. >> So, like that. Somebody made that. So, if you make that one and then somebody else makes one right next to it, it might be 15 grains different. It might be 50 grains different >> and the aerodynamics are different. Like the the flintnapping is completely different. Yeah. >> Yeah. And this thing's not very That's not good. [laughter] That thing would plain like a [ __ ] if you shot it out of a a really good bow. And not to mention the stress of if I don't kill this thing, I'm either going to die or I'm not going to eat or you know all the other things. >> And you have a 15oot bear, >> right? Right. [laughter] Probably bigger. Like what is the height of a shortfaced bear or the length? >> Like what is the what is a big shortfaced bear? >> You seen those caves they have in like Missouri where there still claw marks from shortfaced bears and things? >> Really? >> Oh yeah. You can go visit like midens of them in Missouri where they used to live >> out a cave like a den. >> Yeah. Where they lived in dens and you could see their claw marks in the mud and everything else. It's amazing. >> 11 to 12. >> 11 to 12 feet. Uh I I think they probably have to be bigger than that because Kodiak bears get that big. Kodiak bears can get 12 feet. >> Do they get that big Kodiak? >> Yeah. >> I mean maybe they're measuring them squirrely cuz you know like a lot of times they measure stuff to try to make it seem bigger. So, what is the largest Kodiak bear ever killed? Let's look Let's look that up. Largest Kodiak bear >> it on that picture. >> Largest Kodiak bear ever killed, ever recorded. There you go. Recorded the same thing. Okay, they have it by weight. Um, it's 1,656 pounds, which is, by the way, holy [ __ ] >> It's insane. >> Yeah. Yeah. And nearly a one- ton bear. Yeah. [laughter] >> That's so big. >> Crazy. >> Oh, the hind foot measured 18 in. Oh god. How tall was it? How long was it? >> Was 500 lb more than that. >> Yeah. Over a ton >> in a zoo. >> It was a zoo. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh my god. But he might have been fat. >> He was fat. >> He might have been a short fat. So [laughter] [gasps] >> what is the So what is the longest the largest length? I'm pretty sure he's sitting I I think I've seen this bear and he's sitting in the Anchorage airport when you land there. >> Oh, there's a big Is that bear? >> I think that's the largest bear ever. >> I've seen that. Yeah, I've seen that in Anchorage. That's That thing's nuts >> at the airport there. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's in like a glass case or something. Yeah. >> I'm pretty sure that's the biggest bear ever ever shot. >> Look at that one ever recorded. 2,130 lbs. >> No uh no no length measurements anywhere. >> That's insane how >> that [clears throat] is so big. That's so crazy. >> The shortfaced bear, they they don't even really know how much it weighed. They're just basing it on the bones. Yeah. Right. They don't have a dead one. >> No. >> So that right that photo up there, that's Fred Bear with his 1962 world record Alaskan bear. Go back to that photo that you just were at before. Yeah. Look at that. That's his stuffed bear. >> Jeez. >> He shot that with a old [ __ ] bow. >> Yeah. >> Look at his bow. >> The recurve bow. Yeah. That bull that bow sucks. >> Wooden arrows. [laughter] >> That's so crazy. He was the the first like modern bow hunter. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. I mean, he's a guy who popularized bow hunting. Fred Bear is a legend. Oh, interesting. >> In the bow hunting world. And I mean, you got to think how much how good does life have to be where you go, let's try to do something that people used to do before guns. >> Yeah. Just just because. >> Yeah. It wasn't really a thing that people practiced >> for like the food had to be so readily available that we had to say, "Let's make it harder." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Let's have so much food. Let's make it more difficult. Like, and then there's guys today that they don't like compound bows because they're too they're too easy. >> Yeah. They're using recurve only. Yeah. It's crazy. My friend Aaron Snder, who's a like a world famous bow hunter, went back to using a recurve bow because he was killing too many things with a compound bow. Felt like it was too easy. >> But that's what happens, right? Is these guys master their their craft and when they spend all that time on it and then they're like, "How do I make the challenge harder on myself?" >> Also, they're competing with other worldass bow hunters. Like, they're all like, "Who's the man?" >> Yeah. Yeah. Bit of an ego stroke thing. >> Yeah. There's a little bit of that, but it's also like that's how they get good in the first place. It's like there's a weird thing about people in competition. You can say competition is bad. Like okay, are you saying that on your phone? Cuz how do you think you got a phone? You got you got a phone because somebody just competing against other people and they developed a phone. It's just a different kind of competition. I >> I think competition is essential to human culture. >> It's certainly essential to progress. >> Yeah. >> And and this is why socialism is never going to work. >> Got to reward people. And if they're not rewarded, they're not going to work hard enough to do anything really spectacular. >> Why bother? >> So you're never going to get a laptop. You would have never had high speed internet. Somebody has to profit wildly. >> But that's the joy of competition paying off. >> Yeah. >> Right. Is like not so much with bow hunting, but if you're competitive as a person to the point that you succeed the most at developing a phone or a cup or whatever it happens to be, you win and you get paid the most. >> We just have to have regulations to make sure that those people don't run a muck and then take over entire countries >> and become a monopoly. Yeah. You know, like what was going on with Microsoft in the 1990s? You remember all those? Remember that? >> No. What was how were they taking over? >> Bill Gates was a maniac. Like before, but before people think of Bill Gates now, well, now I think CO kind of ruined his people's impressions of him because now they think of him as a vaccine pusher, >> but and also as a philanthrop capitalist where he's doing philanthropy that makes millions and millions of dollars for him. >> Didn't he also put out that anti-protein film? Wasn't that him? >> Do you know what I'm talking about? I think Bill Gates >> protein film >> Bill Gates, correct me if I'm wrong, but Bill Gates wife is vegan, I believe, and he funded like some Netflix documentary all on how like bodybuilders get huge without >> thinking about James Cameron. >> Am I thinking about James Cameron? I think >> I know James Cameron's wife is uh vegan. >> I might be mixing them up. You might >> You're talking about Game Changers that the vegan documentary. >> Yes. Yeah. With the huge jacked guy being like, "I never touch protein." Yeah, it turns out the the the problem I think if you're looking at that from an ethical perspective and you're saying factory farming is bad, I'm on your page. I'm with you. >> But that had an agenda. >> But yeah, it was a clear agenda. Also just not accurate. >> Anyway, I pirated your thing on Bill Gates though. Sorry. >> So the point was during the 1990s, he was there was all these trials where they had these monopolistic practices, okay? And they were buying up competition or destroying competition. These uh >> just anybody that developed any computer, anything. >> Yeah. Any anybody developed browsers that competed with, you know, Microsoft Windows stuff. >> Yeah. Here is landmark 1990s trials refer to United States versus Microsoft Corporation. Massive antirust lawsuit filed by US Department of Justice in 20 states. Key elements included browser war integration, uh the antirust ruling and the appellet settlement. >> And so everybody in the 90s thought of him as this guy who is this like ruthless capitalist that was trying to destroy all the competition. >> Okay. >> So he kind of reinvented himself. >> Gotcha. >> And what the way he reinvented himself is first of all in he donated an enormous amount of money to the media. So to NBC, CBS, CNN, all these different they gave them hundreds of millions of dollars >> just to fluff them >> just to kind of say, "Guys, I'm your friend. >> I'm your buddy over here." >> And then he developed the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and they they were really concerned with global health. >> Oh my god, dude. Do you know what they did [ __ ] in the Kabor Basa Delta with their mosquito nets? Why would you? But um do you know what I'm talking about at all? >> No. What they do, >> dude? I'm going to go on a [ __ ] tie here. Please do. Okay, so the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation decided that there was too much malaria in Africa, right? Which you and I could probably agree with. Malaria is bad. So what did they do? They gave all of these people living in tribal villages. I'm totally pirated your thing. I'm sorry, but I'm going to go on a [ __ ] rant here. They gave all these people living in the Kaborasa Delta, which is the bread basket of the Zambzi Valley, meaning like where more fish are born. It's a it's a nursery for fish, right? Not just there, but this is a good micro example. They gave millions of mosquito nets out to all these people to avoid malaria. Guess what the people who are starving to death did with their mosquito nets. >> They fished with them. >> They fished with them. Mosquito net has a hole that is so small that a mosquito can't get through. So guess what? These mosquito nets now indiscriminately catch tiny baby fish in areas like Kaborabasa where the fish go to breed and reproduce and populate. So now all of a sudden you have thousands and thousands of people that have been handed nets that have been living one way for hundreds of thousands of years. They don't give a [ __ ] about malaria. They have their own way of dealing with malaria. They sit in smoky huts at night. They sleep with a campfire. Everything else. Yes, they still get malaria, some of them, but they deal with it their own way. Bill Melinda Gates Foundation come in, hand out millions of mosquito nets, absolutely collapse the entire population of fish that feed millions of people because these people just take the nets and fish all the baby fish out so that those fish don't grow up to make substantial protein sources. So now these wonderful philanthropists that have given out millions of nets have destroyed an ecosystem, crashed a fish population, and created widespread hunger for people that otherwise had plenty of resources. All because they were trying to help with their mosquito nets. >> Oh god. >> It's just like it's a [ __ ] disaster, dude. They've taken such a rich and important part of Africa, one of the most abundant freshwater fisheries in the world, and destroyed it because they're helping by handing out mosquito nets. >> Good. Yeah, I know. Sorry, I told you I'd go on a rant, but it's like it's so bad what's happened over there. And they're still giving out mosquito nets, by the way. And you literally watch these guys line up, take a mosquito net, and it never goes in their house. It goes straight to catching fish that are this big for them to eat. >> Oh god. >> Sorry. I mean, this is crazy. >> I just feel bad for them, too. It's like, can't you just double up the net thing and just get them other nets, too? Like say, "Hey guys, >> that's what happened 2018. They got the new nets." >> Oh, is that what it says? >> That's what That's looking at the thing. >> Yeah. Find out other information. >> It just totally ruined crashed the ecosystem. It completely crashed it and it created widespread hunger in a place that had no hunger. >> So now you have people with malaria and hunger. >> God. >> And it's like done from a place of good intent. Or maybe it isn't. And I think that's where you were going. But >> I don't think it is. I think it's a it's a ruse. And I think there what a lot of it is is this thing like we are doing philanthropy. Yeah. But then you you go, "Oh, but you're profiting. You're making hundreds of millions of dollars from this philanthropy." Right. Yeah. you're buying goodwill >> and you're also on television promoting vaccines. Like why are you uh you're a guy who didn't even graduate college? >> Yeah. >> Like I don't I mean I don't even know if you made it out of high school. Like he's a weird guy. Like he's obviously very smart. >> Yeah, of course. >> But why? You're not a health expert. Why? And you look like [ __ ] Like why are you promoting health? Like this is crazy. Global health. Like just a [ __ ] weird guy, man. Yeah. The weirdest thing have you ever seen that you know he was obviously um friends with Jeffrey Epstein or communicated with him and had some sort of a relationship. Yes. Oh, I didn't know that. >> Oh yeah, it's popular. Well known. >> I feel like everybody is connected to Epstein now. Like I've lost a lot of people. But the craziest conversation was there was a woman who was asking him did he regret his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. and he's just trying to say that the only reason why he talked to Jeffrey Epstein because Jeffrey Ebstein was going to he was going to donate money to his philanthropy and all the different things that he's involved in, >> but it didn't work out and I do regret it. And and and >> and she said, "Did did you I forget what her question was." He But Gates says, "Well, uh he's dead now, so there's that." There's something about it is you got to be careful. like he's it's like a weird like veiled threat. It's very odd the way he answers the question. >> Yeah. >> Essentially saying that I'm I'm reading it like like you got whacked. Yeah. >> Like that's what I'm reading. >> Interesting. Weird. >> Like find that that >> I was Well, you find that I was talking to some buddies about this, you know, just like standard bro chat. If if Epstein happened today, right, and you had no knowledge of the weird stuff going on on the island, like you would be invited. You know what I mean? They'd be like, "Hey, Joe." >> Dude, they they did invite me. >> Oh, really? >> Oh, yeah. In 2017, a guy was I'm like, not to specifically, but to meet Epstein. >> But that's what I'm saying. >> And I was like, what? >> If that happened today, some guy came to me. Oh, sorry. >> Yeah, let's do it. reported at that time uh that you had a number of meetings with Jeffrey Epstein who when you met him 10 years ago he was convicted of soliciting prostitution from minors. What did you know about him when you were meeting with him as you've said yourself in the hopes of raising money? >> Uh you know I had dinners with him. Uh I regret doing that. He had relationships with uh people he said you know would give to global health which is a uh interest I have you know not nearly enough philanthropy goes in that direction uh you know those meetings were were a mistake they didn't result in uh what he purported and I cut them off you know that goes back a long time ago now uh there's you know so there's nothing new on that >> it was reported that you continue to meet with him over several years. Um, and that, in other words, a number of meetings. Um, what did you do when you found out about his background? >> Well, and you know, I've said I regretted having those dinners. Uh, and there's nothing absolutely nothing new on that. >> Is there a lesson for you, for anyone else looking looking at this? >> Well, he's dead. So, uh, you know, in general, you always have to be careful, uh, and you know, the, you know, I'm I'm very proud of what we've done in philanthropy, very proud of the work of the foundation. >> Listen, first of all, >> it's a record scratcher. >> You have billions of dollars, right? And this guy didn't give you money for years, >> right? And you didn't give you money for years. You kept meeting him. >> What about your money? Like, what is what is he going to give you? How much is he how much does he have? He probably >> compared to Bill Gates, >> but he also probably doesn't have a fraction of what you have, right? So, like if like Elon started hitting me up to donate money to something, I'll be like, "Hey, [ __ ] why don't you you like >> dude, do you know how much money you have? >> So much money. Why would you Why would you ask? [laughter] >> I'm the wrong guy." >> If he kept meeting with me for years, for years to try to get me to donate. Like, it's kind of similar, right? This is what we're talking about. He's a billionaire, right? Like hundreds of billions of dollars. Like, >> none of it makes any sense. The guy was providing a party for rich people. That's what he was doing. He was providing a way where these rich people can [ __ ] let their hair down and have a good old time and do coke or whatever they did. >> That's all it was really, right? It was just a come. But the party had no rules and that's what makes it >> I'm just guessing. I'm just guessing. But I had a guy who tried to get me to meet him in 2017. >> In LA or where? >> Well, I was in LA when he reached out to me. Epstein appeared to have drafted himself claiming Gates had [clears throat] Oh, yeah. >> Like he wrote it to himself, >> right? This is an email that Epstein appears to have drafted to himself claiming that Gates had contracted an STI from encounters with Russian girls and hid antibiotics from Melinda. Gates said the emails were never sent and are false. >> His spokesman called them absolutely absurd. So absurd that someone could get an STD from a Russian girl. [laughter] >> Gates has separately admitted to affairs with two Russian women >> and with a Microsoft employee, but says none of them were conted to Epstein or his victims. >> Some people say those emails were like a journal he was keeping >> like email himself. They were he was he wrote on an iPad all the time apparently. That's why the typos were so bad and he just liked email, you know. It's you know. >> Well, I mean imagine that's your journal. But why would you do that? Why would you make up a story about a guy having STDs? I think more likely because so there was a rumor and this is an unsubstantiated rumor. I want to be real clear that that Ebstein was trying to blackmail Gates with some story about a bridge player that he was having an affair with. Really hot Russian bridge player. >> I also think they've intentionally flooded the internet with so much misinformation >> perhaps. But my point was if he could have drafted that email, which was never sent Yeah. and then sent the draft to Bill Gates or showed it to him. >> Yeah. >> And say, "What do you think about this?" Cuz I could just >> If you don't Yeah. >> How about you shut the [ __ ] up? How about you give me some money? >> How about you, you know, >> There was a bunch of Well, there was a bunch of people that gave him a lot of money. >> They gave Epstein a lot of money. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. In fact, uh, the guy, the Victoria Secrets guy gave him a house. He gave him a house [laughter] >> control of 100% [clears throat] of his finances. So it wasn't just he gave it to him. >> Oh 100%. >> Taking it or you know and he goes [clears throat] like I didn't know what he was doing. >> Wait, so did Epstein fun that house? Right. >> Did he fund the Victoria Secret guy to start Victoria Secret? >> No, no, no. >> That's how he got involved after that guy's uh this goes real deep. So Columbus, this guy got uh he was going to go to talk to the IRS about specifically what I don't know. 1984, but he was like the tax guy for that company. He was uh murdered in a mob hit style hit. >> Dude, this is why I like this podcast. I'm just like an animal nerd. [laughter] I like talking about snakes and I'm like finding out about Victoria Secret, Epstein and [ __ ] as well. >> Well, I mean, it's what the human animal does. >> The the human animal when it's in these very controlled spaces where just so let's look at it this way. So imagine you're a guy who's especially if you're a nerd and you know you you were never really >> good with women when you're in high school and college and then all a sudden you have literally a hundred billion dollars and you could just get prostitutes anytime you want and I guess if you get the really high-end ones they know how to shut the [ __ ] up and if you you have this friend of yours who was in the MSAD and that guy can get the best hookers and he's got a [ __ ] island. You go to the island it's the best. Yeah. We fly, we talk about philanthropy, we [ __ ] >> Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, that's what I was saying before. It's like you're just like, it's just a party for a bunch of dorks who can come here with a lot of money. >> But there's also some weird science connection with him. And that's what where it gets really odd is that there's he got that ranch in New Mexico so he could be close to the guys that were working at Los Alamos who were famously not making much money. So, he's around these guys and he's talking about going into business with them and and giving them this chance to make an insane amount of money. And this is what he did with Eric Weinstein. With Eric Weinstein, he contacted him and they had a meeting and he was trying to get Eric Weinstein to do something with him. And if Eric did it, he had the potential to make an enormous amount of money. And Eric is very wise and he he just didn't buy him from the start. He's like, "This guy's a construct." He's like >> everything about him. He's like he doesn't know anything about finance. Like he was talking to him. He's like, "This guy's a construct. He's not this is not a real finance guy." >> Yeah. >> He's like, "There's something going on here." >> The Wheeler and Dealer. So, wait, what was the science they were working on? >> A bunch of different physicists were connected to him. Einstein Epstein reportedly hoped to develop super race of humans with his DNA. >> Wow. [laughter] >> Wow. >> What is that from? What? >> New York Times. >> That's the New York Times. >> I got a different one of the article, but that's the original reporting was the New York Times. >> That is crazy. But he had a bunch of relationships with some very impressive scientists and physicists and um also oddly connected to the whole UAP world. The whole Los Alamos thing is weird because the the thing is that he by buying that ranch in New Mexico put him close to Los Alamos which was in New Mexico and he then he had access to all these scientists that were >> famously underpaid. So these guys were not making much money and he was this incredibly wealthy guy through no way that anybody could ever rationally explain. >> It was all weird and you know and who knows what he was trying to get them to do. >> He was probably just one of those guys. I mean you never ended up meeting him but he was probably just incredibly likable as a con man. Do you know what I mean? You probably sat in a room with him and you're like wow this guy's really great. Like maybe I should give him some money. Maybe I should like what a cool guy and he's just a dirt bag under the, you know, under the veil. We're just speculating, but maybe maybe also if you have a bunch of really hot Russian chicks that are hanging out with you, you'll do it. You don't need to be that charming. >> That's so true. It's so true. >> You're a billionaire with a bunch of hot Russian chicks. >> Yeah. >> And then there's a bunch of people that are willing to hang out with billionaires just cuz I've seen it where people just get enamored by the fact that someone's insanely wealthy and they want to go to the party at their house like >> But all those people do is work like crazy. Do you know what I mean? They're not fun. I mean, I don't know. I don't know that many. He was That's true. That guy partied hard. Yeah, good point. Good point. >> Yeah. To to be a billionaire to I mean in most cases you what you have to do is be insanely driven and you have to be that guy that works 18 20 hours a day and you know >> and give up all the other things. >> Yeah. You have to give up all your time that becomes your whole life. >> Yeah. >> And I but I think that's also why they wanted a guy like that that could provide them this is how wine Eric Weinstein described it. He said he provided them with experiences. I believe yeah that was his and I think he's right. I think that makes sense. >> That's why I mean my one and only billionaire friend is that anatomy that Indian guy I was mentioning. I think it's so cool that he's built this gigantic wildlife rescue. >> That is pretty dope. >> That's a great thing to do with money. >> He's just like he's a nerd like me. And if he going to be like thanks a lot but like he's just an animal nerd. Do you know what I mean? He's going to be like he just like he just loves animals and conservation and he's like I have generational wealth that my you know it came from his family. His family's like fifth or sixth generation of having huge industry and he's like okay so with my excess money I'm going to rescue animals instead of do other you know space it's I mean for me it's amazing >> yeah I mean there's no look there's nothing wrong with space race stuff too it's all fascinating and it's but it's just >> it's and I get it from a perspective of people who think there's not enough money in the world and then why do these people have so much money and they should give all their money away and it's like okay but you could do that all the way down to like $100,000 a year if you really wanted to do it. Especially when you compare yourself to everyone else in the world. >> That's right. That's right. You know, we're in the just living in this country alone, we're in the 1%. >> Yeah. Most people I think 1% of the world, we looked this up, it's like 50 $60,000. If you make more than that, you're in the 1% of Earth, >> right? >> And that's the majority of people in the United States. It's crazy. So like >> Yeah. You're barely getting by in America and you're in the 1% of the world. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Which is wild. >> It's wild. >> It's really wild. >> It really is. Yeah. >> Yeah. We're We're the weirdest animal. You should study us. >> I should. Well, I learned a lot today. I'll tell you what. [laughter] >> Yeah. But we're not fun. Like you you you study us and you go, "Oh god, what what are they [ __ ] doing?" Whereas you study animals, you're like, "Oh, [ __ ] cool. >> They're way cooler. They're way more interesting. More teeth, more claws, more slithering." >> Well, it's also just the fact that there's so much variety and that they are real and that they are some of them are so strange. How about that new monkey that they just found in the Congo >> with the lipstick? >> Crazy orange his orange mouth. >> Yeah, it looks like he just ate like one of them freeze pops. >> Yeah, exactly. Like your kid after Yeah. 100. Dude, it's so cool. And new primate species coming out still. Like I love that. I think it's so great. >> Do you believe in the Bondo ape? Do you think that thing is >> Yes and no. Like there's probably likely a group of chimpanzees, do you know what I mean? that that just are more aggressive that are a social construct >> and are larger >> and are larger but it doesn't mean that it's like this you know because they have the whole thing about them being lion killing apes and all this other stuff there's probably a a family troop a group and you know they're in war now have you read about this >> yeah so I think that the Bondo ape is real in the sense of there is an probably an isolated larger group of chimps that just act like chimps that have got >> the thing about this chimp though is they said that their skulls are different >> yeah the cran ial ridge. Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Things with stronger jaw muscles have a cranial ridge. You know, you see it in hyenas. You see it in things like that. Gorillas. >> Yeah. Gorillas. Yeah. Exactly. It's just more more surface area for the muscle to attach to. Basically, >> it's just like that would be so fascinating to find those thing. And that's with you know that Carl Arman guy spent his whole life >> hunting and reading rumors and >> but at least he got some photos unlike that poor [ __ ] that was looking for the sloth. >> Yeah. Still still trying. Yeah. Like he got some camera trap photos of them and you know >> No. And and they're bipedal in the photos, right? Didn't you have a lot of them? Which chimps are? You know, they'll walk on hind legs and stuff. Yeah. It's pretty cool. >> It is pretty cool. And then there's a photo of the one that they killed that was at the airport. Do you know you ever see that one? >> I don't think so. >> Oh, it's crazy. >> At the airport. >> Yeah. There's a a small airport and they they killed this one uh enormous chimpanzeee. So, there's these two guys that are standing with it. It's hard to tell how big the guys are, but if they're normalsized human beings, that's the biggest [ __ ] chimpanzeee I've ever seen in my life. >> Look at that thing. >> They're amazing. >> Look at that. I mean, the guy is You could tell by perspective that the guy's he's got his hand on it, so he's right behind it. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's not a force perspective. >> And his his arm is not extended, so it's not fake. And that chimpanzeee looks way bigger than him. >> Way bigger. Yeah. It's amazing. >> So, they think that is one of them. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, I I think it's real in the sense Oh, yeah. This this famous photo. >> See, but that one just to me looks like a chimpanzeee. That just looks like a big chimp. >> Yeah. >> Where the one that's sitting down, that looks way bigger than those guys. Like the size of its head is [ __ ] enormous. Do you know that there's one river where um I'm trying to remember exactly how this works, but basically there's one area where the rivers collide where the chimps and the gorillas go into conflict with each other over this one river spot. Do you know what I'm talking about? Have you ever heard about this? Yeah, it's really interesting. So, somewhere in the Congo, there's this particular river, and I think it's called the Cross River. Can't remember now. And it's an area that the chimps will come on one side and the gorillas will come down on the other and they will have they'll like throw stuff at each other across the river and [laughter] like it's like a whole thing. It's been documented and these guys will there's sort of these like two clans of great apes that come and communicate across the river and throw rocks and like show off to each other and then they kind of go back into the jungle. But it's been seen in this one particular river several times. >> Wow. >> Yeah. It's like the real Planet of the Age. >> What are the chimp wars? What are they are they fighting over food territory? >> It unless I'm mistaken it's relatively unknown but it's it's sort of a social construct. So if you think of humans for example once our population gets too large and we have too many men and not enough women we fight right we've seen that throughout history. Roman times Mongolian times you name it. So there was one troop of chimps that all lived together in relative harmony and then two leaders basically sprung up and there was a a lack of enough females. And so all of a sudden this this clan divided into two clans and now they're at constant war with each other. Like they live in the same relative territory, but they'll come in with come into contact with each other and go to war over who's going to be the leader of the the alpha troop, the mega troop. >> Wow. And it's been going for maybe a year or two years now. >> [ __ ] >> Yeah. But how human is that? >> So human. >> Like to be like, "Okay, we're all part of this group. Like you and I don't like each other now. Like this is my side. That's your side. We're going to [ __ ] each other up." >> Study highlights friends with benefits relationship between gorillas and chimps. What? They're [ __ ] each other. >> No, it's younger ones hanging out. It says it's probably in the same area they're meeting. Pictures of them like in the same trees. >> Yeah, I think this is that river >> getting for fig they want figs out of these trees. Yeah, but friends with benefits generally >> with benefits are Yeah, I Yeah, I was looking for wording that got to what you're [snorts] getting at. >> But you don't really say that with like your like why do you why do you go to dinner with Bob? Well, we're friends with benefits. [laughter] Oh, you're [ __ ] Bob. >> Why did you start [ __ ] Bob, man? >> No, no, no. We just like figs, both of us. The chimpanzees, though. They caught them beating their chest, which is only something gorillas have ever seen. >> Oh, they're they're imitating them. >> Mimicking each other. Yeah. Isn't that cool? >> Yeah. I'm I'm sure you've seen that one um documentary, I think it's called Relentless Enemies, where there's a particular pride of lions that grew enormous because they're only eating water buffaloos. They got trapped on an island because the river changed paths. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I remember what you're talking about. I don't know the documentary, but yeah, they're eating cape buffalo exclusively and the lions are just getting bigger and beefier and they're all fat and like Yeah, it's pretty cool. >> Well, they have to get bigger. the females are doing all the killing and so they're as big as male lions in other places and they're jacked and they don't have a choice >> because otherwise they're going to die while trying to hunt the the cape buffalo. >> Right. But so we're watching natural selection in real time because they just keep getting bigger and stronger. >> Yeah. >> And you know like these [ __ ] buffalo are enormous, man. They're jumping on these things and hanging on them and trying to drag them down to the ground. >> The black death. That's what they call the cape buffalo. Yeah. >> Those [ __ ] are so scary. So mean, so scary. Yeah. And they'll charge so unprovoked. Like they'll just turn and come anytime. But it's uh >> it's crazy how you have that basically insular dwarfism and insular gigantism throughout animals no matter like >> Yeah. >> animals stuck on an island. They're either going to get big or they're going to get small. >> Well, lizards usually get big on an island, right? >> Or tortoises, right? Like the gapagos or the seells. Yeah. >> Why? Why do they get bigger? >> No predators, unlimited resources. >> Yeah. So all of a sudden, you know, you're a little tortoise that's this big, and every time you get to this big, something spots you from the air and eats you or whatever it happens to be. But now you're stuck on an island with all the grass and fruit you could ever eat, and nobody wants to eat you. So you just get bigger and bigger to out compete each other. >> Look at that face. [sighs] >> Yeah. Look at those guys. >> Just imagine that's the only thing you can eat is something three times bigger than you >> and can [ __ ] kill you. >> That kills a lot of lions, by the way. >> Oh, yeah. Well, they kick you in the face when you're trying to take them out and then that's it. Your jaw is broken and you never eat again >> and you starve to death slowly. >> I love the little the little cub there covered in blood. Look at that. >> It's a really cool documentary, but the it seems so weird when you're looking at the size of the females. >> They just look exaggerated to the point where they they look fake. They look like Hulk lions. >> It's awesome. >> It's very cool. >> Very very cool. >> Nature is such a wild thing, man. And I mean, it's such an an amazing, fascinating, endless resource of just cool [ __ ] to see. >> And our understanding of it changes all the time. Every animal theory we've ever had evolves and changes as we learn more, which is what makes it so fun cuz it's so dynamic. It's not a static thing. >> Well, it's just crazy that we keep finding new things like the new primate. >> See, find that little new monkey that they found >> with the orange lips. >> He's really cool. He's in the Congo. >> Well, in the Congo is another place. It's like what? >> Yeah. >> You ever you I've seen sure you've seen that BBC documentary on the Congo um from God, it was like the early 2000s. >> But um look at him. What a weird looking guy. >> So cool. >> So strange. >> There's a few lost primates out there too. Like species that we've seen once or twice that have never been seen since that. >> Like what? >> Um Miss Waldron's red colibus is one that comes to mind. >> It's called Miss Waldron's. >> I think it's called that. Or maybe it's just Waldron's red colibus. But it's a a colus monkey that there's like three or four museum specimens and no live specimens. >> Yeah. >> Really? >> Uh-huh. There's a few of those. Yeah. >> Whoa. >> Miss Waldron's. Yeah. Red colibus. >> Why is it called Miss Waldron? >> I don't know. >> Who's that lady? >> Good question. [laughter] >> What do you have to do with this monkey lady? >> To West Africa. Previously described as subspecies. Not been cited since. Oh, I saw it for a second. And what's crazy is a lot of these animals, especially like these primates and essentially anything that lives in the Congo, it is in a place that's so scary and so dangerous to visit. Yeah. >> That it's not a lot of research being done. >> Well, that's always what I tell people when they're like, "Oh, well, you know, find these animals. Find that animals." Nobody's looking. >> It's too hard. The local people know they're there. Like these lost species are species that the people that hunt and eat them know they're there, but they have no communication to the outside or the scientific world. And you know, for you or I to go into that part of the Congo is probably a death sentence. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> But there's a lot of cool stuff out there. >> Are there any other animals that uh might be real that people think they've seen >> as far as like cryptids that could still be real? >> Weird ones. >> Oh man. >> Like the giant sloth or something like that. >> I mean, there's that whole like the dinosaur in the Congo thing that people always talk about. It's silly. It's not real. >> That one seems silly. I mean, I I can't think of any. I I think, you know, like >> David Cho went looking for that once. >> Yeah. Yeah. I actually That's one of your pods that I watched the whole thing. He was talking about that. [laughter] >> David's crazy. >> Yeah. I can't think of any. But, you know, it's it's those rumors like there's a sloth. We've seen it. There's a Asian unicorn. We've seen it that if people don't follow, you never know. >> It's like you can you can absolutely be the tinfoil hack guy like I can be with the thyloine. But if you give up and don't look, you know, we never really know. And if it's going to be it'll probably be in a place like the Amazon or like the Congo, some enormous like the Isn't the Congo as wide as the contiguous North America? >> The country or the river? >> I think the the country of the Congo the the Congo the jungle of the Congo I think is almost as big as America. >> I did not know it was that large. >> Africa is [ __ ] huge. >> It's huge. If you see because United States imposed on Africa, you're like, "Oh my god, the continent of Africa is enormous." >> Well, that's what's squirly about maps, right? Especially like when you look at the globe, like everything's so distorted. Yeah. >> Which I don't understand why they do that. >> No. >> I've never had that explained to me in a way that like, oh, I get it. >> Or or timelines. Have you ever looked at how like time lines are drawn on the globe? Like like um you know, like the time zones, >> right? wiggly jigsaw puzzles and you're like why is that island in this time zone that's three slots over like it makes no sense to me >> doesn't make any sense >> yeah [laughter] >> um but like see if you can find the size of the Congo like if you see the size of the Congo versus I think it's almost as big as the United States >> in terms of I didn't realize that it's the same yeah there are there are these there's so many of these incredible remote >> it's thousands of miles wide Okay. So, if you took that and you shoved it Why doesn't Why isn't it Put it over. Right. The bottom one there is a better one. >> Bottom one. That one's better. So, not quite. >> Yeah. But it's still enormous. >> Yeah. It's like 35%. >> Yeah. And there's more political unrest there now, which means stuff shuts down. >> I mean, that's crazy. That's an enormous piece of Look how big that is. >> You get [clears throat] all of India, all of Eastern Europe, the United States, China. [ __ ] crazy. France, Spain. I mean, look at that. >> It's a big place. >> And the cradle of civilization. >> Yep. >> The cradle of humanity. >> And then also Egypt. That's that's also part of Africa. >> You know about the eclipse coming up there. >> What? >> Biggest one in history. 2027. >> Yeah. >> So in 2027, uh I want to say April, there'll be a six-minute total blackout in Egypt. It'll be the longest one inund or maybe 80 something years over the Red Sea in Egypt. Oh, that's when you want to go see the pyramids. >> Can you imagine? >> That's when the aliens are going to return. >> That's what I'm saying, dude. Can you imagine being at the pyramids and seeing a 6 minute long 6 minute 22 second? >> That's what it's going to look like. >> And it's in a place that never has [ __ ] clouds, so you're going to see it. I mean, they do, but not that time of year. So, yeah. Total solar eclipse for 6 and 1/2 minutes. >> So, we had one here. Um >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Two years ago. Was it two years ago, Jamie? >> Yeah. >> It was really cool. >> Was How long did that last you? I wasn't, but yeah, >> a couple Yeah, a couple minutes. What was really cool about it though was that all the animals got oddly silent before it happened. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It was really weird. >> Like they know something's coming. >> Yeah. So we were outside waiting for it and as the you know as the eclipse starts taking place everything went quiet. >> Yeah. >> It was really wild. >> So crazy. >> And then while it's happening like whoa. And you you imagine like imagine living like thousands of years ago before anybody understood what the [ __ ] was going on >> and thinking like some wild magical moment had happened and that we entered into a new timeline or something. You'd have all crazy theories. >> I'd like grab somebody. We got to sacrifice them right away. Something's going on here. >> Get them to the pyramid. Cut their cut their heart out. >> Yeah. Straight away. It's also it's like so weird that the sun and the moon are the exact right distance that when they cross the moon just >> completely outlines where the I mean just fills in everything. >> Yeah. >> But you but the light around the outside the edges bizar like how is it perfectly sized like that? >> Have you seen Oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, it's just it's an incredible coincidence that it's the right distance and the right size because obviously the moon is so much smaller than the sun. Yeah. But perfectly distale >> so that when the sun and the moon is there, it's like boom. It's like the right size. Not like half of it. >> Yeah. >> You know, it's perfect. >> Yeah. Perfect. >> It just sits right in there. >> Yeah. It's like an Oreo and the cream. It's amazing. >> The really screw ball theories are that the moon is fake. >> I've never heard that one. >> Yeah. Yeah. The panda The panda fake has nothing on the moon being fake. >> The moon is fake. >> Yeah. Yeah. They think that the moon is uh artificial and that it was like put here by aliens and it's hollow. >> You're kidding. >> Oh, no. No, no. >> That's a good one. >> And that it was put here in order to sustain life on Earth to give us a stable orbit. >> I mean, it does do that. >> It does do that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Cuz imagine like how fragile life is on like we're really concerned about climate change. Like oh my god, the climate changes. Well, guess what? If the [ __ ] moon wasn't there, you'd be doomed. >> Oh, that just nothing. >> There's no way. You You need a big moon, too. >> Controls all of our oceans. And >> it's a quarter of the size of the Earth. It's a weird moon. >> Yeah. >> Like, I don't think there's another moon on in our entire solar system. That's comparable in terms of like the size and the relationship to the other planet. The planet itself. >> I think it's way bigger than every other moon on Let's find that out cuz I think that's pretty formulates the conspiracy theories like it was brought in. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Interesting. >> There's also we did something some sort of experiment where we shot something at the moon and it rang like a bell for like a long time >> which is really weird. It's like it it echoed like way longer than we thought which >> of course could just be they didn't know what it would do cuz they had never done it before and they don't even know like >> fifth largest >> the fifth largest moon in the solar system with a diameter of the width of the contiguous United States. While it's dwarfed by Jupiter and Saturn's largest moons, it's uniquely massive compared to its parent planet. Yeah, that's what it is. Making the Earth moon system more like a double planet. Yeah. So, in relationship to the planet like it's so Jupiter and Saturn have huge moons, but Jupiter obviously is [ __ ] way bigger than us. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, I can look at the size of Jupiter in comparison to the size of Earth. >> Yeah. So, it's [snorts] the scale of the moon to the to the Earth. Yeah. Interesting. That is a wild conspiracy theory. Imagine just being the guy who's like, "You know what? Why don't we shoot at the moon? Let's give that a whirl. I'll see what happens." >> Yeah, they did something. I think I don't know what they shot it with. I think they sent a rocket to the moon just to measure the sound, >> like see what would happen. >> And it was odd. They they found it was odd the way it rang. It rang like a bell. >> But, you know, it's like they've never done that before. Like, and also, who knows what the [ __ ] center of the moon's made out of. Who knows where you hit it? >> Yeah, totally. >> You know, who knows? Maybe it's maybe you got some caves in there. It's hollow. >> Apollo experiments and the ringing effect. >> Uh the phrase moon rang like a bell comes from Apollo 12. In 1969 November, NASA deliberately crashed the lunar module's ascent stage onto the moon. Seis uh seismometers recorded a longlasting vibrations for nearly an hour. This description is a metaphor for how dry, cold lunar rock reverberates without water to dampen the shock waves. Interesting. Yeah. But retards and dorks say, "Oh, it's hollow. It's made by aliens." [laughter] And there's also people that think that, you know, there's stuff there that like there's a monolith. >> Oh, there cities on the moon and all that on the other side that we can't see bases. >> Reddit's a wild place, huh? >> So, [laughter] this is not even Reddit. This is like you got to go to like weird message boards. Crazy people go. >> It's deep crazy. >> Yeah. People that >> on wiki. >> What's that? Hollow moon. There the hollow moon closely related to spaceship moon. Ah that's the one. Our pseudocientific hypothesis that propose the earth's moon is either wholly hollow or otherwise contains a substantial interior space. No scientific evidence exists to support the idea. Let's go to go to spaceship moon because that seems even more interesting. >> Have a link for it. Yeah, spaceship moon. Come on, baby. [laughter] >> The all these pseudo scientific the moon spaceship uh includes historical Oh, no, no, no. >> Yeah, it's not. I didn't know what that means. >> Spaceship moon theory. >> Try that theory. moon. A pseudocientific hypothesis proposing that Earth's moon is an artificial hollowedout satellite constructed by an alien civilization. Oh, boy. See, >> it's like the Death Star. >> There you go, bro. [laughter] >> Well, you need to get into like space is fake. That's even better. >> Space is fake. >> Is popularized in 1970 by two Soviet scientists, Male Vasine and Alexander. How about that word? >> Sher sherkbuck. >> Sherbakov. Chuck Kerbachov, >> who suggested the moon was reinforced by an armored titanium hull to survive impacts. >> Oh man, people need more to do. >> No, they don't. >> You like that? >> I I love [laughter] I love the kookier the better. >> Yeah. >> Like # space is fake is one of my favorite things to look up [laughter] because there's a whole community of people out there that think space is fake. But I also think that a lot of these people what you're getting is there's been some there's been some people who develop fake theories in order to see if people bite >> and then and then they put them out there like on Reddit or somewhere on on 4chan. 4chan's a great place for stuff like that because you got a lot of schizophrenics that like to visit those places >> and they they'll put it out there and see if people run with it and then they'll do it to see if just for fun >> and he gives you a community, right? It's like, "Oh yeah, I have this group of flatearthers that I hang out with on Saturdays and we talk about how the earth's not round." You know what I mean? It's like I have a I made my own lunatic community. >> Bigfoot hunters. Same thing. >> There you go. >> Unfuckable. >> Unfuckable. Yeah. [laughter] >> Unfuckable white guys looking for cryptids. >> Something to do. >> Are there any other cryptids that are even remotely interesting? >> To me, not really. I mean, I I always enjoy the fun of it, like when we chat about it, but as far as like the reality of it, I I don't think so. You know, I know it's a boring answer, but I think that >> But you would know. I mean, that's why I'm asking you. I mean, you're a guy who actually goes to these places and goes looking for stuff. >> I love when you hear about something like a borrowing snake and everybody's like, "That's not real. It doesn't exist." And then turns out somebody finds this weird snake and it's not really a crypted, but it's something that nobody's been looking for cuz why would you, right? in the center of the mudnake or whatever its communities, you know, like you hear from the village about the snake. I'm making the snake up, but about the snake that lives under the mud and only bites when people dig their crops or whatever it happens to be. And it c creates this generational legend that becomes a crypted. But the truth is, there is a snake that lives under the crops in the mud. It's just nobody ever goes looking for it because why would you? >> Well, there is a weird arrogance that we have in 2026 because we have uncovered so much in comparison to people that lived two or 30 hund years ago for sure. >> That we have this maybe arrogant assumption that we have an accurate audit of all the animals on the planet. >> And it's such a a human thing to do is to be like we've quantified it all. We have the answers. you know, it's like we put a finite on something and then you have all these guys like especially in the scientific community, which is that's a whole story for itself. But they're now like, "Okay, I need funding. So, I'm going to speciate a bunch of stuff. So, I'm going to go look at four things that are exactly the same except one lives on one side of the creek and one lives on the other, and now I'm going to make it its own species because that'll fund more work for me." >> So, now you have the speciation race. >> Yeah. And there's no gatekeeping on that where someone goes, "Hey, >> I mean, there are certain criteria that you have to meet, but they're pretty easy to meet." Do you know what I mean? You have to say it looks different. It has some kind of genetic anomaly. It has some kind of physical anomaly. There's a population of it. Okay. Now, now I've named my own species and that makes noise and I can publish a paper and now my research is funded. And it's just like, it's not, you know, is it a species? Do we did we need this one frog to be split into four different groups because they live on, you know, four different patches of the mountain? Not really. You know, and it sort of lessens the conservation for that frog in general because now all of a sudden it's like, well, there's four different kinds of them, so who cares if one of them gets extinct? You know what I mean? So it's it's sort of like it's a weird thing that's going on in the sciences where there's this race to do speciation and pull apart everything into more and more and more and then it sort of lessens the value of them in my opinion. >> That's interesting. So there's this reward thing that happens that encourages people to do these things. >> Dude, I'm writing a whole book on this right now. the scientific system in wildlife and conservation is so broken because it's very first of all if you're an animal guy you're probably not a great people person to begin with right [laughter] myself included >> you're not a bad people person >> thanks but for the for the most part the people that get into the sciences probably are don't have the best yeah they're awkward they don't have the best human social skills right so then those people become professors and heads of parties and academics and all these things and again I'm generalizing there are great people that I work with too but this is just a picture of the system so now you have all these socially awkward somewhat introverted people studying animals now there's this tiny little resource pool of money and everybody that's socially awkward that's already somewhat arrogant because they've made it to the top of their field or close to the top of their field is competing for this tiny little pool of money. So now they're putting out anything that's headlinew worthy. And a headline worthy could be as simple as speciating a frog on a mountain or it could be discovering something. But basically you have to just publish something to show that you are accomplishing something to then pull from that tiny little pool of money. So now a system like say Yi and Jamie here should all be working towards saving this guy right here, this metal metal chimpanzeee. Well, we're not. We're all fighting because there's this tiny little pool of money that we all want and we're all saying that each other are wrong because we need to prove that we're right. so that we're funded because you two because all three of us can't be funded to save that species. >> Does that make sense? So now we're all fighting each other to save the thing that we all care about because the resource pool is so small. >> What's the solution to that? >> Well, it needs to become more mainstream. Um, and I I think there's a lot of [ __ ] science, you know, to be honest with you. Like there's a lot of this speciation and publishing and all this stuff that's just sort of making noise that isn't really helping. And I think the solution is well one once it becomes more mainstream. Here's here's the short answer. Conservation is incredibly easy to measure. We try and make it very difficult and complicated. Are there animals now? After your work, are there more? Have you fixed the problem? That's all conservation is, right? Are there are there more or less than when you started? If when you started there are less and now there are more, and this is very black and white and every system's different, but if you had a thousand frogs and then you worked on the project, now you have 2,000 frogs, you're doing conservation, right? As long as the ecosystem supports, as long as the prey is there, blah blah blah blah blah. That's all conservation is. We try and make it so complicated and so in-depth and require all these papers and this publishing and this information that is sort of an information overload that the common person doesn't care about it. I mean when's the last time you read a paper on frogs? Probably never, right? >> Me neither cuz they're boring. Cuz I don't want care about it. But I would care if you just came out and said, "Look, these frogs need a home. We're going to fight kitrid fungus, which is this big widespread fungus that's killing all amphibians by building frog hotels. And if we build, which are these little brick hotel things that frogs go into incubate to kill a fungus and if we build enough frog hotels, then there's going to be more frogs. That's good conservation. So instead of fighting over that, make that popular and mainstream. Don't make it so complicated so that nobody understands it. I'm not saying don't publish papers and things. Those still very much so have their place and they're important. but focus on the messaging to the common person so the common person now cares. Then there becomes more funding and resources. Then we don't all have to fight over this tiny little pool of resources to publish things that aren't actually accomplishing things. >> Well, this is actually the value of getting into a crocodile cage. >> That's right. >> Because you get people actually interested in in animals. And >> that's why I do YouTube. That's why I do all these things is that I hope that it helps people care. I don't need to get funded by it. Like it's great when my YouTube does well and I make money, but like I just want people to care about these things cuz if you care about them, then that resource pool widens. >> Yeah. >> Well, it's you got to make things interesting to people, right? And this is where like David Atenboroough was so amazing. Absolutely. Right. Cuz he developed these documentaries and but so and the voice that he had is explaining these things. He was the first guy to document chimpanzees eating monkeys. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. I remember that. >> Incredible. That was incredible. All his stuff, he's the the goat, literally. >> But you kind of That's another thing about being a wildlife biologist. You kind of have to get your hands dirty. Like, you got to get in there. >> And the other part of the system that's so broken is a lot of these worldleading experts have never touched, seen anything with a living one of these animals. Like I worked with a person, and I don't want to say her name because she's a lovely person who's a worldleading expert on a certain type of shark. And we're like, great. You're the world's leading authority. You're perfect to come with us on this trip to study these sharks. We fly to the opposite side of the planet. I don't want to give too many details. It's not fair to her. She's a very nice person. We fly to the opposite side of the planet. She's published 50 papers on this species of shark. And we get there and I'm like, "All right, day one. Let's gear up. Let's hop in the water and look for this thing." She's like, "I don't know how to swim." Like, "What do you mean?" She's like, "I've never been in the ocean before." Like, "You're the world's leading authority on this type of shark." And she's like, "Yeah, yeah, I don't I don't dive. I don't snorkel. I don't know how to swim. I'm like, "Well, how are you the world's leading authority on the shark?" She's like, "Well, I've never seen one alive. I've dissected them. I've published all these papers. I can tell you about the tooth count, but I've actually never seen one alive." I'm like, "You're the world's leading authority, and you've never seen one of these animals alive to study it." The guy who fishes and eats it in the village next door is a more of an authority than this person. Do you know what I mean? But that's the scientific process, the world's leading authority because they've published the most papers on something that sits in a pickle jar. >> Do you think that that is an absolute requirement though? Like do you have to have some sort of physical contact with the world that they live in? >> I think you have to have observational knowledge. You don't have to have physical contact. Like you shouldn't have physical contact with wild chimpanzees. They'll rip your arms off, >> right? But I mean the world they live in. I mean being on the ground. >> I think it should be a requirement. I think if you're going to be considered an authority on that thing, you have to have observational data as well as scientific data. You can't just live in a world where you're like, I've studied them in pickled jars and I can tell you everything about them. >> Well, to me, that was like one of the most fascinating aspects of chimp nation, >> you know, that these scientists had been embedded with these particular chimpanzees for more than 20 years. >> That's science. Yeah, >> that is science. That means you are sitting there and that's why the best scientists are the guys that hunt and fish and spend their life surrounded by these animals that will never once be credited as a scientist cuz all they do is study the behavior of the animal. >> And I'm with you like that is that's the real deal. 20 years watching a troop of chimps, learning their behavior, understanding their social dynamic. I'm not saying you shouldn't also cut one open and measure its canines. You should when you get a dead one. But that doesn't make you an authority on it, >> right? >> In my opinion. >> Well, that was the thing about that particular documentary and those particular scientists was that it was so unusual that they had this long history where these chimpanzees had lived and died and raised new chimps around these people and as long as they followed this protocol, stay within, you know, 20 yards at least 20 yards away from them. Never have food around them. Don't look them in the eyes, >> you're good. >> Yep. >> And you got insane footage because of that. >> Yeah. because there's a mutual respect. Like they've learned to appreciate each other. And you can't do that with every animal. Like it doesn't matter how many years you spend sitting watching a crocodile, it'll still eat you at the first chance it gets. >> But you've earned a mutual respect with a highly intelligent creature. That to me as a field biologist is science. That's incredible. >> If not a respect, at the very least, you've become a part of their world to the point where they don't think of you as being an anomaly. >> That's right. So they act normal. >> Yep. >> Where they're they're not they're not weirded out. Like if you just show up out of nowhere and you're wearing a spacuit, the monkeyy's going to go, "Hey, >> exactly. >> [ __ ] is this new thing?" But if there's always people with spaceuits around, they never bother them. They go, "Oh, it's just the spacuit guy. Normal. I'm just going to go eat my bananas like normal." >> It's the same as seeing, you know, an Impala and a wilderbeast hang out together at a watering hole. They're used to each other. They know they're not threats to each other, but you or I walk up and both of their ears perk up and they sprint in different directions. >> It's amazing. >> But I mean, has there ever been anything other than Chimp Nation where they did that that effectively? >> I mean, the Grizzly Man sure tried. >> Didn't work out so well. >> Didn't end well. [laughter] >> Or did it? Yeah, >> it probably ended the way he wanted it to, honestly. I think >> there's no way he could have wanted to go out any other way. I think I think that was Suicide by Bear. >> Yeah. You think? >> I also think it was Warner Herszog's attempt at comedy. >> You think? >> Yeah. There's something about the way he edited it where I'm like, "This guy's [ __ ] with us." >> Cuz there's one time where he talking about the sheriff and they ask the sheriff like, "What do you thought of him?" And the sheriff goes, "Well, I thought he was retarded." And [laughter] they smash cut to something else. I'm like, "You're trying to make me laugh, weren't you?" >> It's pretty funny, though. I' I've wanted to try to get him on the podcast and that's going to be one of He probably would never answer honestly because it would probably be disrespectful to Timothy Treadwell and >> you got to get memory though. >> I would love to get him on just I think he's amazing. >> Yeah. >> And also his documentary Happy People Life in the Tiger is one of my favorite documentaries of all time. >> Oh, really? I don't know it. It's good. >> It's all about these people that live in Siberia >> and uh they have like no mental illness and all they do is they live a subsistence lifestyle. They're just hunting and fishing and uh trapping and they ride around on snowmobiles and they make these huts and they live up there with their dogs and they have this extended periods of time where they're alone. Yeah. And all they're doing is like taking their snowmobiles to different traps and and gathering wood for fire and fish to eat. It's and they're all happy and they're drinking and laughing and they're they're like it's weird because he he documents it and it's called happy people. That's what the documentary is called. >> And it's like with his like the way he describes his people living in Siberia. >> Siberia. >> [ __ ] amazing. Oh, that's cool. >> It's really amazing. It's amazing documentary. I think he's incredible. >> I I have said forever you don't all look mental illness a real thing. I'm not going to pretend it's not, but if you spend a lot of time outside and in nature and especially by yourself, >> it the noise goes away. I don't care who you are. I don't care what your history is, drug history, anything. >> When you you're much more present when you're alone in nature. >> Yeah. >> And mental illness from I have no experience in this. This is just opinion. But mental illness comes from when you're wrapped up in your own being, right? When you're thinking about all the problems and this that and the other thing. But when you're alone in nature, you have to think about your surroundings and what you're doing. and you don't have time to sit and manifest on these things that create depression and anxiety and all of those types of things. >> There's also no comparison. You're not comparing yourself to anyone else cuz you're living in a community that are a subsistence lifestyle people. All these people are doing the same thing you're doing. What are you going to do? You going to have the biggest fish? Like nobody gives a [ __ ] It's all hunting, fishing, living off the land. And that's they all do it and they're all like sharing and drinking together and having fun. It's really wild when you watch it. You go, "Well, it got boiled down to like the most simplistic communitydriven ways that people exist like this." Like, seems to be the best way for people to live. >> But like you said earlier, you have to have both sides, right, of the coin. It's like the red and blue in Texas because you have to have innovators and overthinkers and workers or it wouldn't be a society >> or they and by the way, they wouldn't exist because uh they use snowmobiles and not one of those [ __ ] is going to invent a snowmobile. >> Exactly. So, you got to have the red and the blue. You got to have both sides. Yeah. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> That's awesome. >> Well, hey, brother. It's always good to talk to you. This is really fun. >> Really fun. >> What is this? You and the crocodile. >> Oh my god. Dude, you didn't tell me that you put meat all around the outside of it. >> Told you I was an idiot. Look at this. We made that cage, by the way. And I am no engineer. >> Oh my god. Cave looks so flimsy. [laughter] >> So, >> that thing looks so flimsy. And you're just hanging by a thread. >> Uh, literally like this cable that we sourced from a village and hoped it would hold up. I mean, we tested it as far as put some rocks in it and tested it and empty cage, but >> this is a terrible idea. >> It was dumb. It was dumb. >> Look at these things doing death rolls. >> But people are going to watch this, Joe, and they're going to learn about crocodiles. >> Great thing you filmed it, >> right? [laughter] >> God, man, that's insane. >> It was fun. >> That that cage looks way too flimsy. Don't do that again. >> I'm not doing it again. I promise. Yeah. Um, tell people how they can see that, where where they can find all your stuff. >> Dude, it's Shark Week. We got an awesome show coming out this week. Um, Alien Sharks, Untamed America, looking at some incredible sharks. Celebrating America's birthday. Our craziest, weirdest sharks. >> How long is Shark Week has been going on since the 80s. >> 39 years old. Same age as me. Yeah. [laughter] It's been around my whole life. >> That is so crazy. >> Yeah. It's an institution. >> Wow. >> Plus, we got the YouTube channel. Well, that's where I'm doing most of my stuff now. I hope people check that. I know you watch some videos. I've heard you comment. I appreciate that. >> Well, I appreciate you. I appreciate you doing that stuff, man. >> Thanks for having me, dude. Always a blast. Always great to see you. All right. Bye, everybody. >> See you. [music]